Executive Summary
In this episode of Startuprad.io, host Jörn "Joe" Menninger interviews Professor Robert S. Langer, a distinguished biotechnologist and MIT professor. Langer, who holds over 1,400 patents and co-founded Moderna, discusses the differences between biotech sectors in Europe and the US, the challenges and successes of biotech startups, and the future of mRNA technology. He highlights the importance of great scientists, science, intellectual property, and business acumen for biotech success. Langer also emphasizes the role of government and private sector partnerships in advancing biotech innovation and shares his optimism for the industry's future.
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Introduction
Welcome to another exciting episode of Startuprad.io! In this episode, we're thrilled to welcome a preeminent figure in the world of biotech, Professor Robert S. Langer from MIT. Join our host, Joe Menninger, as he delves into an enlightening conversation with Professor Langer, who boasts an astounding career with over 1,400 patents and groundbreaking work that has profoundly impacted modern medicine.
From pioneering drug delivery systems to co-founding the revolutionary biotech company Moderna, Professor Langer's contributions are paramount. Tune in as we explore the current biotech landscapes in Europe and the U.S., discuss the future trajectories of mRNA technology, and uncover insights for budding biotech entrepreneurs. Discover the key elements that drive success in biotech startups, the role of government and private sector partnerships, and the importance of diversity in research outcomes.
Whether you're a biotech enthusiast or looking to understand the inner workings of this transformative industry, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge from one of its most influential leaders. Stay tuned!
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Questions Discussed in the Interview
Challenges and Success Factors: What are the main challenges biotech startups face in both the US and Europe, and which factors are critical for their success according to Professor Langer?
Government and Private Sector Partnerships: How do government policies and private sector partnerships influence the growth and innovation in biotech startups?
mRNA Technology's Future: How do you think mRNA technology will evolve over the next decade, and what impact could it have on diseases beyond COVID-19?
Diversity's Role in Research: Can you provide examples of how diversity in teams can lead to better research outcomes, as mentioned by Professor Langer?
Funding for Biotech: What are the differences in funding opportunities for biotech startups in the US and Europe, and how do these impact the growth and development of new companies?
Clinical Trials: Why are clinical trial readouts important milestones for biotech companies, and what do they signify for the future of treatments?
Lessons from Failure: How can biotech startups and researchers learn from failure, and what did Professor Langer mean when he said that handling failure is more important than handling success?
Impact of Tax Laws: How do tax laws and other governmental incentives affect investor interest and the overall development of biotech startups?
Innovations in Drug Delivery: What advancements in drug delivery systems are you most excited about, and how do they have the potential to change medical treatments?
Career Longevity in Research: How does Professor Langer view the future of his career, and what motivates him to continue his research despite his extensive accomplishments?
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The Guest
In this episode, we welcome the distinguished Professor Robert Samuel Langer Jr. (https://be.mit.edu/directory/robert-langer), who is a highly respected biotechnologist, chemical engineer, and a prolific inventor. Holding the esteemed title of Institute Professor at MIT, which is the highest honor that can be awarded to a faculty member, Professor Langer's career is adorned with an extraordinary array of achievements. He is the most cited engineer in history, with also over 1,400 patents to his name, and has received more than 220 major awards, including the U.S. National Medal of Science and the Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering. His work primarily focuses on drug delivery systems and tissue engineering, fields in which he has had a pioneering impact. Perhaps most notably to the broader public, he co-founded Moderna, a biotechnology company that brought revolutionary mRNA technology to the forefront during the global COVID-19 pandemic.
Throughout his illustrious career, Professor Langer has played a foundational role in the establishment of more than 40 biotech startups, pushing the boundaries of modern medicine and healthcare. His contributions have not only advanced scientific understanding but also had significant practical applications, saving countless lives through innovative treatments and therapeutics. In our conversation, recorded remotely due to the aftermath of Cures 2024 in Minds, we explore a wide range of topics, from his insights on the current landscape for biotech startups in Europe and the U.S., to the future evolution of mRNA technology. Whether you're a seasoned biotechnologist or a curious listener, Professor Langer’s profound knowledge and experience offer invaluable lessons on integrating groundbreaking research with entrepreneurial spirit to make a lasting impact on the world.
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Links / Further Readings / Additional Resources
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:00:02]:
Hello, and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from start up rate dot o, your start up podcast and YouTube blog from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. As you guys know, we attended Cures 2024. And in the aftermath of this interview, we would like to welcome professor Robert Langer here with us who I'll talk soon about you, but I did some research, and you won more than 220 major awards. So, welcome to Startup Radio. Very happy to have you here.
Robert S. Langer [00:00:34]:
Oh, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:00:37]:
Your your schedule has been a little bit tight at the event, so we're doing this in the, after the real event. Remotely. I believe you're joining from Boston.
Robert S. Langer [00:00:48]:
That's correct.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:00:49]:
Yes. We are honored to have you here. You are officially professors, Robert Samuel Langer junior, a renowned biotechnologist, chemical engineer, and inventor who is distinguished institute professor at MIT. You are holding over 1,400 patents. That's crazy. You're the most cited engineer in history and have been instrumental in founding more than 40 biotech startups, including Moderna. You've done groundbreaking work in drug delivery systems and tissue engineering, and you've that has earned you more than 200 and 20 major awards, including US National Medal of Science and the Queen Elizabeth Prize for engineering. This interview is, as I said, conducted in connection with Cures 2024 in July in Minds, and we explore the insights in biotech startup and your pioneering contribution to modern medicine.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:01:45]:
But I have to admit, I'm not a doctor, so we would not go too much too deep into that. Given your extensive involvement in the biotech sector, how do you perceive the current landscape for biotech startups in Europe compared to UES? Are there specific strength or challenges unique to each region?
Robert S. Langer [00:02:09]:
Well, I think they're both I think, you know, it may actually depend where where you are in Europe. Obviously, Germany, you know, that I mean, if you look at the mRNA area, 2 of the 3 main companies are in Germany, you know, which is BioNTech and and CureVac. You know, I think different countries have different cultures. You know, I I I think there's a lot of great stuff going on both places. But, you know, for both areas, I mean, finding funding for biotech is, you know, can be difficult. Finding great business people, can be difficult. I think different cultures have different appetites for risk taking, and I think that that's certainly important. But I I think there's a lot of similarities in the US and and and Europe.
Robert S. Langer [00:02:54]:
I think one of the other questions would be, you know, are there tax incentives that that you know, government incentives that can help, you know, people want to invest in in in companies, particularly in biotech companies. You know, I I'm not a 100% familiar with the different laws and and tax issues in in different countries in Europe. I don't know that they're all the same, though. So, I mean, just as an example, I remember when I was in Denmark, they said that if you had a a reg a car, they, taxed it a 100 a regular car or gas guzzling car. I think they taxed it at, like, a 150%, you know, which and the reason they do that is to try to discourage, you know, or to help on things like climate change and so forth. I mean, so different countries, I don't know that that's true in necessarily other countries. I mean, you would you would know better. But I I I think that, different countries have can have different laws that can either incent or not incent, you know, general investments or or biotech investments.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:04:04]:
Well, I I do believe we have more than 20, little laboratories here, all the countries in the European Union that try out their best to really, do what's possible within this frame, and I do believe you just need to learn from the best. What advice would you give to European biotech startups looking to achieve the same level of success as those in the US, are there key areas they should focus on or common pitfalls they should avoid?
Robert S. Langer [00:04:33]:
Well, I think the the main thing is to have great scientists, great science, great intellectual property, and great business people. That might sound superficial. But, you know, I've seen companies fail for any one of those reasons. So I think that that you wanna make sure that you have all those things. And and I think you'd like to be fairly far along. In other words, you wouldn't wanna just have an idea. You'd wanna have reduced it to practice, you know, gotten some patents and publications and and things like that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:05:04]:
Mhmm. As a cofounder of Moderna, what were the primary challenges you faced in the early stages of the company, and how did you overcome them?
Robert S. Langer [00:05:15]:
Well, I think the challenges really that Moderna faced, and they're not atypical. I mean, every every technology is different. I mean, I think the first thing that well, there were there were several challenges. I think one was, you know, getting good animal data. 2, tied to that was developing the right delivery systems. You know, 3 was getting the right business arrangements. So all those things, you know, were important. We were fortunate.
Robert S. Langer [00:05:42]:
We had very, very good people working at at Moderna and still do. So I think that that really was critical to solving those issues.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:05:53]:
Mhmm. Moderna's mRNA technology has revolutionized vaccine development. How do you envision this technology evolving in the next decade, particular for those diseases beyond COVID 19?
Robert S. Langer [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Well, you can already look at Moderna's pipeline. I'm sure you can look, by the way, at BioNTech's pipeline too. You know? I mean but what we see are many other vaccines, you know, RSV vaccine. This is now Moderna. RSV vaccines, flu vaccines, combination of vaccines. There may be vaccines for things like Epstein Barr virus, many others. These these are all public information.
Robert S. Langer [00:06:33]:
They're they're on the website. They're all in, fairly advanced clinical trials. And then, of course, there are cancer vaccines, which I think or or, individualized neo gen neoantigen therapies. And then there's different rare diseases. So I think there's so many different things that are coming about. And and and already there have been a number of approvals, and I expect we'll see a lot more.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:07:00]:
With your significant experience in truck delivery systems, what advancements are you most excited about currently, and how might they impact the future medical treatments?
Robert S. Langer [00:07:14]:
Well, we're we're doing a lot in our own laboratory. Some of it's aimed at better at new nano particles that can target cells, specific cells in the body. Some is aimed at trying to get through barriers like could you ever take these drugs orally or, could you get them to the brain? So and and so there are really a lot of different types of challenges that we've worked on, pulmonary delivery, vaginal delivery for women's health. We're doing a lot with the Gates Foundation for, people in the developing world where we could make what I'll call self boosting vaccines so you wouldn't have to go back for a second injection. We're also doing a lot on, pills that you could swallow and maybe only have to do it once, because they would last a week or a month or or longer.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:08:04]:
You answered already a part of this question, but I didn't know your answers up front. So, let me still ask a question. Maybe we can, discover a new aspect here. What role do you believe government and private sector partnerships should play in advancing biotech engineering, innovation, especially in the context of startups?
Robert S. Langer [00:08:25]:
Well, I think so a couple of things. First, the government. I mean, the government can do, of course, a lot of things. In the United States, we have the NIH, which is a great organization, and they, not only do research themselves, they fund research at different academic places. We have the FDA that that regulates these things and and, and and and and and so forth. I think that, what I would say is from the NIH, we get the basic research, being done that often leads to these companies. So so I think that's very important. I think though one of the issues, of course, is it's one thing to make a discovery, which is wonderful, but then, of course, to make a product, it's it's very expensive.
Robert S. Langer [00:09:12]:
You know? So I think different kinds of tax laws, you know, can can can play a big role. The United States sometimes is very concerned about pricing. Of course, that sometimes causes a problem. I mean, because, you know, investors who put the money in, they have a choice. Should they invest in the next Facebook or the next Moderna? You know? And when there's a lot of criticism about prices, well, it's pretty clear what they will do. And that's why I think, you know, there were very few places like I mean, Moderna was the only one in the US, and like I say, there were 2 in Germany. So I think that the government can do many, many things, positive or negative, to influence, the development of of of new medicines. Sometimes there's also agencies like ARPA H or DARPA in the United States, which also can be very helpful in in in, you know, young companies getting funding and things like that.
Robert S. Langer [00:10:08]:
Mhmm.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:10:09]:
I see. Diversity is a crucial element in problem solving. Can you elaborate how diversity has played a role in your teams and research outcomes at MIT and within the companies you founded?
Robert S. Langer [00:10:22]:
Yeah. Well, I'd rather not have adversity. But but but it on the other hand, it's it's hard to do research and and not have it. I mean, to me, research, I mean, is a very exciting thing. But I think when I look at what I've certainly done career wise, I failed many, many more times than I've succeeded. I think when I've developed for just to pick an example that's relevant, you know, 50 years ago, I was interested in developing tiny little delivery systems for large molecules, which would include DNA or RNA, and I failed 100 of times. Finally, I succeeded. But, of course, one success can wipe out a lot of failures.
Robert S. Langer [00:11:02]:
And, you know, it was it was funny. I think one of my I I think at one of these recent meetings, somebody one of my former students, she apparently showed, had a cartoon of herself and and had and had a quote from me about that I said that I said something to the effect that really what's after she got a grant turned down, I said to her something like, well, it doesn't you know, what's really important is not how you handle success. Anybody can do that. It's how you handle failure.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:11:37]:
I like that one. Like that one. The biotech industry has seen rapid growth during the pandemic. How do you foresee the industry's growth and evolution post pandemic, especially particularly regarding start ups?
Robert S. Langer [00:11:54]:
Well, I'm still very optimistic. There's I think there'll there'll be more and more startups. I mean, you know, I think that that's happened the last 40 years, and I think we'll continue to see that. And and in in many areas, biotech and other areas as well, I think there's a tremendous amount of great science going on worldwide and and a need, you know, to do better and better. So I expect that that will continue to happen. You know, getting enough funding, that that'll certainly be an issue, But I think that, you know, what's I think if the past is any predictor, you know, there'll be ups and downs, but I still believe overall the good that can come out of these new little companies is tremendous. So I think we'll see a lot more.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:12:39]:
I think you've already answered the last question because we would be looking at the future of Moderna, but you have already talked about the public pipeline. And I do understand you know a lot more, but there's a there's a certain limit to what you could tell, according to SEC rules and so on and so forth. So only thing left, we have, something interesting for the last question. Otherwise, we can just cut it out.
Robert S. Langer [00:13:08]:
Yeah. I know. No. That's okay. I mean, I think that, you know, if there's public the the the real thing coming up for Moderna, probably coming up for any type of biotech company will be readout in clinical trials. You know, what what will be the readout on the cancer trials? What will be the read out on on other trials? I mean, that's, you know so I think that that that will be for for any company, those readouts are are important milestones. I mean, you know, I'm it's so far, and I expect it will continue. The readouts have been terrific.
Robert S. Langer [00:13:43]:
You know, both BioNTech and Moderna got FDA approval for the COVID vaccine. Moderna got approval for the RSV vaccine. The data on the cancer trial so far has been excellent, but there's more to come, and also there's gonna be more different kinds of cancer trials. So, and and then there are many, many others in the pipeline. If somebody just looks, for example, at the Moderna website, and I'm sure that's true for other companies, you can you can pretty much figure out what the what the milestones will be. But the number one milestone is how well does it do for patients. You know, so far, it's done very, very well for patients, you know, because of the COVID vaccine, and I think the others are are look quite promising as well.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:14:26]:
I would for the last question, I would be curious because you have achieved already so much. What would you personally see as your next milestone, like a 1,500 patents filed?
Robert S. Langer [00:14:41]:
Well, I think at this stage of my my life, I, you know, I I I I think to me, you know, we have a lot of things we're working out in the lab. I don't know that I think about it in terms of specific milestones, but I I always feel happy whenever we get a scientific paper accepted. I feel happy when my students get, you know, really good jobs. I certainly feel good when the companies I've helped, you know, get going, you know, get good clinical data. I mean, all those things. I mean, those, you know, I hope I hope I you know, that I'm fortunate enough to continue to see these things happen.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:15:19]:
How long do you want to do your research? Can you see yourself doing it for the next 5 or 10 years?
Robert S. Langer [00:15:28]:
I can. I mean, again, I'm I'll be 76 in in in a little over a month. But, I I to me, I always ask how could I make the most impact, positive impact on the world. And and, you know, as long as my health is good, which so far it is, you know, I'll I'll try to keep going. I I love what I do. It's been wonderful to be able to interact with great students and postdocs and colleagues, and, you know, I I hope that I'll be able to to do a few more good things.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:16:00]:
Well, only thing left for me to say is thank you very much for this great interview, and hopefully, you get to do 20 more years great and impactful things.
Robert S. Langer [00:16:09]:
Well, I appreciate it. I hope you're right. Thank you so much for thinking of me.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:16:14]:
Totally my pleasure. Have a good day, professor Lange. Bye bye.
Robert S. Langer [00:16:17]:
And and good luck to you and your family. Thank you.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:16:20]:
Thank you. Bye bye.
Robert S. Langer [00:16:21]:
Bye bye.
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