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Executive Summary
In this episode of Startuprad.io, host Jörn “Joe” Menninger interviews Martin Cudzilo, founder of ARCheck, discussing the challenges in the cleaning industry and the development of augmented reality technology. Cudzilo shares his entrepreneurial journey, the potential for AR and AI to revolutionize cleaning, and the impact of ARCheck on efficiency and cleaner support. They delve into the challenges of managing sick leave, the early development of ARCheck, and the upcoming launch of the minimum viable product. The episode provides insights into the transformation of the cleaning industry and the powerful potential of augmented reality technology.
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“I had so many ideas, to, like, improve the processes. You know? And, so I quite fast found out that, my strengths lay in, in, like, improving, methods and processes to, like, optimize, Menninger tasks and, whatever has to do with it. So, This was my passion.”— Martin Cudzilo
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The Challenge of Innovation in the Cleaning Industry: “They solve everything around, but the problem is, that they didn’t have a solution to enable a cleaner who doesn’t speak the language in your land and maybe doesn’t know how to clean, to help him to clean in a proper way, right from the stand right away.”— Martin Cudzilo
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The Challenges of Cleaning Services: “The only way to support, to do a better cleaning is to support the cleaner.”— Martin Cudzilo
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HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen
This recording was made possible by HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen. These organizations have made tremendous contributions to helping startup businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants to ongoing partnerships. By taking advantage of these resources, startup companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success on the international stage. The dedicated support of HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen is paramount in providing startup businesses with the tools for lasting success. Learn more here: https://www.htai.de/ and https://www.een-hessen.de/
Questions Discussed in the Interview
How does Martin Cudzilo’s background in the cleaning industry influence his approach to developing AR technology for the industry?
What are the specific challenges faced by cleaners in Germany, and how does ARCheck address these challenges?
How does Martin’s comparison of Jeff Bezos’ early struggles with internet investments relate to his own experience in convincing investors about the potential of augmented reality for the cleaning industry?
What strategies does ARCheck employ to support non-lingual cleaners and improve their working conditions?
In what ways does the integration of AR and AI revolutionize the cleaning industry, and how does it impact the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of cleaning processes?
How do the anticipated advancements in AR glasses technology, such as Apple’s AR glasses, validate and impact the future of ARCheck’s application in the market?
How does ARCheck aim to improve efficiency and pay cleaners better, and what role does real-time guidance and quality checks play in this process?
What are the key milestones and achievements in the entrepreneurial journey of ARCheck, from early investor interest to the upcoming launch of the MVP?
How does ARCheck’s approach align with the projected growth of the cleaning business in Germany, and what opportunities does it present for the market?
In what ways does the development of AR technology mirror the evolution of cell phones, and what implications does this parallel have for the future of augmented reality in various industries, including cleaning automation?
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The Founder
In this episode of Startuprad.io, Jörn “Joe” Menninger welcomes Martin Cudzilo as the esteemed guest. Martin, with over 25 years of experience in the cleaning industry, has a deep understanding of the challenges faced in this sector. His entrepreneurial journey began with the establishment of his own cleaning company, where he recognized the need for innovative solutions to enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of cleaning operations. Martin’s passion for integrating technology into the cleaning industry led him to venture into the AR startup field, where he established ARCheck, a groundbreaking project aimed at revolutionizing the cleaning market through augmented reality and artificial intelligence.
Drawing from his extensive experience in the cleaning business, Martin Cudzilo brings a unique perspective to the conversation, shedding light on the challenges faced by cleaners, the fierce competition within the industry, and the need for technological advancements to support and elevate the role of cleaners. His deep understanding of the intricacies of the cleaning sector, paired with his innovative spirit, makes Martin a compelling guest on Startuprad.io. Listeners can expect to gain valuable insights into the intersection of technology and the cleaning industry, as well as the entrepreneurial journey of an individual committed to driving positive change through innovation.
The Startup
AR-Check, the innovative startup founded by Martin Cudzilo, has emerged as a game-changer in the cleaning industry. The company has completed two rounds of fundraising and is currently open to new investors for its third funding round. AR-Check’s groundbreaking and disruptive project aims to revolutionize the market by integrating augmented reality (AR) technology with cleaning processes, providing real-time guidance and quality checks for cleaners. This pioneering approach sets ARCheck apart from its competition, as it addresses the critical need for support and efficiency in the cleaning industry, particularly in Germany where many cleaners lack sufficient training and support, leading to quality problems and high turnover.
With a strong focus on technology and innovation, AR-Check has achieved significant milestones in the development and patenting of its AR-Check system. By utilizing HoloLens technology and anticipating future advancements in AR glasses for cleaning automation, AR-Check is at the forefront of leveraging cutting-edge technology to improve the efficiency and quality of cleaning processes. Their commitment to supporting cleaners in real time, establishing industry standards for cleaning, and ultimately improving the pay for cleaners sets them apart as a pioneer in the intersection of technology and the cleaning industry. As they prepare to launch their minimum viable product (MVP) and conduct custom pilots for testing, AR-Check is poised to make a lasting impact on the industry and become a leading force in cleaning automation.
Venture Capital Funding
AR-Check is currently in the process of raising its Series A funding. You can reach out to Martin via LinkedIn, or leave it to us to make an introduction.
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Automated Transcript
Narrator [00:00:05]:Welcome to Startupradio, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German start up scene with news, interviews, and live events.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:20]:Hello, and welcome everybody to another interview in our series with, the European enterprise network, Hessen and Hesson Trade Invest. Today, I would like to welcome Martin, the founder of ARcheck. Hey. Hi, Yudin.
Martin Cudzilo [00:00:36]:Hi there. Nice to meet you.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:39]:Totally my pleasure. It’s great to have you here. And the interesting thing is you are the founder of an augmented reality AR Startup applying AI, but in a field I would never thought of. That is pretty interesting, and that’s why you are here today, Our enabler. This recording is supported by Hesen Tradeninvest and the Enterprise Europe Network. These organizations have made tremendous contributions to helping Data businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants to ongoing partnerships. By taking advantage of these resources, StartupRadio companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success on the international stage. The dedicated support of HDAI and the enterprise Europe network is paramount in providing startup businesses With the choose for lasting success, look for our dedicated sub podcast in partnership with them called Tech StartupRadio Germany and or look on our Linktree.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:01:46]:Martin, now that we do have that out of the way, I May tell our audience, yes, your startup is from Hessen, the area around Frankfurt, one of the states of Germany. You are in AR and AI, but actually you are not a techie by heart. How did you end up in a AR startup?
Martin Cudzilo [00:02:10]:Well, it was by chance, actually. So, I I never I never had the intention to to To, open a StartupRadio, actually, I I’m from the cleaning business, and, I I worked in the cleaning business for about now 25 years. And when I started in, like, in the year 97, I was working, For a company, where I, I started to organize Menninger contracts for for my customer, and, that’s that’s actually how I got in touch with with the cleaning business. It wasn’t actually my purpose, but, sometime, Menninger happen like this. And but but I but I but I was fascinating by by the cleaning business. And it was very interesting for me to, to to, like, see how this works, How the processes work, and, I had so much ideas, to, like, improve the processes. You know? And, so I quite fast found out that, my strengths lays in, in, like, improving, methods and processes to, like, optimize, Menninger tasks and, whatever has to do with it. So, This was actually my passion.
Martin Cudzilo [00:03:38]:And, a few years later, I founded my own cleaning company. And, Yeah. That’s that’s how I actually got into this business. And, Yeah. How did I come up with with this kind of technology and to connect it with cleaning? That’s actually the interesting question. So, I was I was looking for a solution for a software solution for my own company, and I was visiting, all different, Fairs, in the whole world, which are specialized in, in in in Menninger. So they’re quite popular ones in, in Holland, for example. It’s like the, how what what is his name? I forgot the name right now.
Martin Cudzilo [00:04:30]:I’ll I will find I’ll find out in a minute, but it’s a it’s a huge, It’s a huge fair, in in in Holland and which is also in, in in Las Vegas And, in Italy and there are some, quite big fairs, cleaning fairs in, in in, in China. But wherever I went, there there there are specialized, providers of software solutions. But, actually, they they didn’t could they they weren’t able to solve the the real problem in cleaning business. You know, they solve everything around, but the problem is, that that they didn’t have a solution To, enable a cleaner who doesn’t speak the the language in your land And maybe doesn’t know how to clean, to make to help him to clean in a proper way, right from the stand right away. So That’s that’s what I was actually searching for, and I I couldn’t couldn’t find a solution. So I decided To, figure out something, by myself. And, so what I did is I I, I I was searching, and and projecting, an old system. And, so, after a time, I I found out that that it is that that it is possible to do something, but there wasn’t a technology on the market.
Martin Cudzilo [00:06:01]:It was on the market maybe, but I didn’t know about it. So I I had a quite crazy, science fiction idea, but I I figured out that it’s it’s it’s not possible To, to realize it. So, actually, it, I I put it into the draw, And and there it was laying for 1 year until I was watching TV, and there was a program about, the the company Google, and, they talked about the Google Glass, and that’s that was, I think, in 2013, and that that That’s the first time I I came in contact with, with the augmented reality technology.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:06:44]:Mhmm. When you’ve been talking about Menninger business, we may tell our audience what you’re actually Talking about most people will look around in their apartment. Yes. I would need to clean again, but that’s actually not what we’re going for. I mean, Literally, hundreds of people every night go, for example, into all the high rise buildings here in Frankfurt, all the office space, and clean it. There are a lot of different buildings out there that need cleaning because nobody Lives there, but they need to be clean. Think about nursing homes. Think about hospitals.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:07:24]:Think about everything from kindergarten to Go
to university, yada yada yada. So that’s actually the business we are talking about, and it’s really big in Germany. Right, Martin?
Martin Cudzilo [00:07:35]:Right.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:07:37]:Do you have a number how big it is here here in Germany alone?
Martin Cudzilo [00:07:41]:Yes. Yes. First of all, I I just remembered The fair is the interclean. It’s quite big. Mhmm. What I was talking about. And according to market in Germany, it’s a quite big market. So, in 2022, the turnover in Germany was like €22,000,000,000.
Martin Cudzilo [00:08:02]:And, they’re about, a little bit less than 1,000,000, cleaners, on the market, And that’s about the b to b business. So there’s also the, the private business in cleaning, which is also quite huge. I don’t know the numbers of that spot. Yeah. And and, of course, the we have the the worldwide market, which now is about about in, €340,000,000,000, and, the market is, rising quite, quite positive. It’s about I I think, something about 6.2% per year, it will be, it will be, the market will be in 2030 about it will have a turnover of about €530,000,000,000. So it’s a quite attractive, rising, business.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:08:57]:We may also tell our audience That this is about, like, the professional cleaning, meaning there are long term contracts. There are a lot of people involved. But My understanding right now from the conversations we had before is that you have quite a lot of turnover In terms of employees, and not everybody is familiar with cleaning. They just need a Joe, and they go there. And that’s actually when your solution comes in. Right?
Martin Cudzilo [00:09:25]:Correct, Joe. Absolutely. Yeah. So, what we have to take in mind is that the the cleaning business is a low budget business. And, So, it’s a quite big, how you say in English, cutthroat competition. And, so everything is about the price. So, the problem is that there’s not enough money for for the cleaner to pay the cleaner. So, there is a lot of, how you say, it doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work because there’s not enough money.
Martin Cudzilo [00:10:04]:And the only way to support, to to do a better cleaning is to support the cleaner. So actually, as we know and it it’s also, like, in different countries. In Germany, we have the situation that, most of the cleaners come from from other countries, and they don’t speak very well, German. And, the cleaning companies actually don’t have a lot of time To, to school them, to show them how to clean. And even if you do it in a proper way, you never can be sure that the cleaner after you left him and trust that you will do the cleaning in the correct way, that he will do it, do it right. So this causes a lot of quality problems and, and, a lot of costs. And, that’s why Menninger is also quite quite emotional because, Customers are quite often unsatisfied, and then you have to take care, then you have to talk to the cleaner and show him how to clean. And, So cleaners quite often don’t don’t don’t, stay in the job quite long.
Martin Cudzilo [00:11:09]:And even if they’re sick, you you have to have somebody else who will, do the cleaning for them or when somebody goes on vacation, you need a a a replacement.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:11:20]:Martin, so sorry. I I I have just 1 question Question here. Right now, there’s rampant, influencer. There’s RSV, there’s Corona, And I’ve heard in the news that there’s a record high in people calling it sick. Can you give us a little Dapple how it really is during influenza season to run such a business and how many people call in, sick, and how do you get replacements?
Martin Cudzilo [00:11:49]:Well, you know, that that that’s a quite that that’s quite a challenge, you know. Joe, I mean, we have our system. So when when when this happens and we have, how you say, downsides, right, when with with cleaners, we, of course, have to we have personal, so we can, like, amortize this? Is that how you say it? I’m not sure.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:12:15]:Amortize. Mhmm.
Martin Cudzilo [00:12:16]:But the point is actually that, the problem is not the cleaner. The problem is The missing technology for this. And, that’s that’s what I what I understood in all this business because most most cleaning companies say that the problems are the cleaner, But that’s not true. The the problem is actually the cleaning company and the missing technology to support the cleaner. And, Yeah. That that’s how I I came up with with ARCheck because that’s that is a system which directly supports the cleaner, in real time, shows him how to clean With, in in, in which, how you say, Rheinfeld? In which, Order? In which order, which material, and, it also checks, the quality in real time. And the savings which can be made by automating these processes through, hardware and digitalization. The the, the money saved by this, can be used to pay even the cleaner much better.
Martin Cudzilo [00:13:17]:So we will we will not have the the downside of, missing cleaners. So, that’s positive also.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:13:26]:Mhmm. I I’ve also seen that you can establish some standards. For example, one of your pictures show somebody wearing I do believe it’s a HoloLens. Right? Right. HoloLens, and and the picture shows for toilets, Just only use red cleaning racks, something like this. So, that makes it easier, like, more standardized?
Martin Cudzilo [00:13:50]:Yes. Well well, you know, the the point is there are codes. There are color codes in in in cleaning business. Joe, For example, the red rag, is used for toilets, and it’s supposed to be used only for toilets, not for the for example, the kitchen or for something else. So, that’s another point where, our system is recognizing in real time when somebody uses not the correct Menninger items, and this this quite helps, to to take care for for a proper cleaning to make proper Menninger, sure.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:14:25]:Mhmm. I see. See. See. See. And and and can you tell us a little bit the the the first article I found on you guys with, with Deutsche StartupRadio Back in 2016, of course, I’ll link it down here in the show notes. Can you take us along the journey what you’ve done since? Because that is Quite some time that are something like almost 8 years now. And what you’ve done during that time? How How did your product, your idea develop, and how far are you in the entrepreneurial journey?
Martin Cudzilo [00:14:58]:Yes. Indeed. That’s a quite a long time. You know, the problem we had is I came up too early with this idea. So I stood in front of the question is, We we’ve done a due diligence, and we found out it will take about 10 years until, the the right hardware will will be on the market. So, I I stood in front of the decision to wait, like, 10 years and to patent the system, 10 years later Or, to be on the safe side and patented it in 2014 and, wait like 10 years and start the business. And that’s actually what we did. So, we launched the patents, the 1st patents in 2014 to save the patents, which was quite smart because, already, I think about 1 year later, the first companies It tried to patent the same system, so it was quite a a good, decision to to make the patents.
Martin Cudzilo [00:15:56]:So we had to still wait for the hardware, and, we we we we use the time to do some experiments, and see what we can actually do with with the, with the hardware on the market. But we were quite lucky because, already after a short time, the 1st glasses came on the market, which were actually, usable for for our prototype, which was the HoloLens, The one you can see, it’s not the the exactly the one. It’s it’s the the first version. It’s the HoloLens 1. And the one you can See on, on our website is the HoloLens 2. So we use this opportunity to to build the prototype Space based on these, on these glasses. And actually, that’s that’s what these glasses are good for. So the future, glasses we need to to totally automate cleaning business, they they will look a little bit different.
Martin Cudzilo [00:16:54]:That will be another generation of glasses. But the ones you can see on our website, the HoloLens 2, already fabulous works, for for the prototype, which shows that What we are looking to do really works. So, it was quite stunning. It’s a little bit comparable like, The 1st cell phones in the eighties, which were quite big and had a weight from, they they were like, 10 kilograms, And you couldn’t do much besides, you know, talking to to somebody. The the same thing is right now. So these classes are in a Quite early stage, but we already can see now the new, patents on the market and the new systems, Where we are quite, how you say, we’re quite excited that the next generation of glasses will be the glasses which Which can, change the whole market in this business. And, yeah.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:17:55]:I actually had to smile when you’ve been talking about the cell phones. I vividly remember the time when you had a suitcase. You needed to talk on the phone. I’m even old enough to remember that at one point, People could only have, something like similar to cell phone in the car. So car phone, that was that Status Limbo, amazing. Incredible. You you’ve been so important when you need anyone from the company where you got something installed, And they’ve gotten quite a lot smaller. But my personal understanding right now is the development from those Huge car phones that you could only install in cars, to what we have today to let’s say, the The iPhone, the 1st usable smartphone, took quite some time, something like 15, 20 years around that.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:18:45]:But my understanding is right now, The augmented reality development goes much faster. Is that right?
Martin Cudzilo [00:18:52]:Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, the time we we were too early, you know, we had problems to, to make investors understand and convince them that, Joe this is the future technology, and we have quite we had a quite, hard time. It’s a bit, comparable, At the time when when when, Jeff Bezos was raising money and, he explained his business model, and He had to explain to the to the, investors what’s what’s actually Internet. They didn’t know in these early days. And we had the same problems to to, to make them understand what it is about augmented reality. And, so We’re now in a time that actually everybody knows about it. You know? Everybody sees it, and, and and and what is what what is I mean, what makes us very happy is that that now the biggest tech company in the world is, launching the 1st AR glasses.
Martin Cudzilo [00:19:50]:So we’re talking about Apple. And now, everybody actually sees that this is the future. And connecting this with with, with artificial intelligence, allows us to do absolute new systems, new new value chains, and, We can, like, do things in the cleaning business, which were, before absolutely Unthinkable. So, everything is going in the right direction right now according, augmented reality and, What we are doing, of course.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:20:24]:I see. And, can you give us a little idea about the economics? Because My understanding is a HoloLens is right now pretty expensive. And as you’ve said, the, The hourly rates you could charge for your employees cleaning have to be somewhere around 20, 25 years, Maybe. So it takes quite a while until you can get something amortized That is, that is something like €3,000. How are the economics working right now, and what do you see for the future?
Martin Cudzilo [00:21:02]:Well, I tell you what. Of course, the glasses are quite expensive now. We we started, like, in 2000 and, I believe, 16 or 17, the first glasses we had Where it was a helmet. It was actually a helmet, you know, with the augmented reality display in front of you. It cost about $21,000. And, later, they, we were, able to buy the HoloLens number 1, the the first version, which cost like 5,500, and now we have the HoloLens 2, which cost about, 3 and a half 1000 or €3,800. Besides that, there there are other companies like like Dockery, or was not Dockery, but, I forgot the name now, but, whatever. What I can tell you about the pricing, the, I don’t know how you say it in English.
Martin Cudzilo [00:21:59]:It’s called in German, Joe that’s the Process which is, which you need to, make sure that cleaning happens. And this, This, needs a lot of money. So, automating these processes can lower the cost extremely. So for example, an hour of Menninger, in a comp from a company cost about €23 right now, something between €22 and €25, the regular cleaning. And, when you use, the glasses, even if you use hollow glasses And you pay for the for the license, for the I a check r h AR check license and the, the sensors which are needed to, stick to the Menninger equipment. Right? You can still lower the price to about something of, to €19 Joe €20, even those high costs. You know?
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:23:00]:Because you reduce something you would Just simply call it an overhead.
Martin Cudzilo [00:23:04]:Yeah. That’s the overhead. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That’s the overhead. And on the long term, we have to understand, that, the new technology as it is today and as we can see what it is capable to do, I believe it’s just a question of time that, it will be able to, to provide cleaning Better than any cleaning company. So, actually, what I’m saying is, the future is is is not not not are not cleaning companies as it was like the last 100 years, but, it now begins the era of, hard and software based cleaning.
Martin Cudzilo [00:23:45]:Yes. We’ll make it better and cheaper.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:23:49]:But just to confirm with you, Neither you nor me see, like all the buildings getting cleaned by roboters in the next 5 years.
Martin Cudzilo [00:24:01]:Well, I’m not sure. I don’t believe that robots will take over. You know? I I’ve seen the robots, for example, on the interclean, And I I’ve seen, the number 1 producers of these robots, and, One is quite popular, in Germany, which is, Fraunhofer Institute. They’re working on a on a robot as well, and I I’ve seen how it works. You know, it it doesn’t actually clean proper. It cleans first of all, it cleans very slow. And when it cleans, It leaves marks everywhere. So, it does clean, but it’s not clean on the end.
Martin Cudzilo [00:24:37]:You know? And I believe, And not only me, that that that’s the main, how you say that, it would take quite a long time till cleaning cleaning robots robots will take over, the cleaning business. And when it begins, a cleaning robot will be actually expensive as a as a middle, how how you say middle cost car. So it will cost about, I don’t know, like, $50,000 or $70,000. It will be in the beginning quite expensive, but but it will come. I I believe so. Yes. Today’s today’s, cleaning robots for the floor, the professionals ones, They work quite good.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:25:25]:Mhmm. And do do you also have something like a small cleaning robot for your personal house like a vacuum robot?
Martin Cudzilo [00:25:33]:Actually, I don’t. We have we have 1 in our in our, where we where we produce the software, we have 1. Because we are we are trying to connect we are testing to connect, cleaning robots with the glasses. So, the cleaning robot actually you know, when the cleaning robots cleans the floor, there are some spaces we where he cannot clean because there are chairs, There are, tables and there are some spaces where he cannot reach. And what we wanna what we actually wanna do is to can connect, It’s, AR check with those cleaning robots. So after the cleaning robot has done his cleaning, you just put on the glasses and you can see the spaces, which which have not been cleaned by the cleaning robot. So
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:26:18]:I see. Now now that we do have an understanding what are the economics, What you what you guys are doing, can you take us a little bit how far are you on your entrepreneurial journey? So You do have a prototype. I’ve seen a lot of very interested companies on your website that read Out to you and want to work with you. You got I do believe it’s called letter of interest from them, something like Marriott, Cashier, and Other companies there, which which I actually find pretty impressing, plus you got the German design award winner 2020. Right? Right. And when will you start with this MVP product?
Martin Cudzilo [00:27:04]:First of all, I have to tell you that a lot of companies, they contact contacted us already a few years ago, at the time where we where we even haven’t the, the prototype. So but at the time we were producing the prototypes, Even more companies came up to us and showed their interest, in this in in our system. Some of them found out about our patents and contacted us. Some Saw us in the Internet. And, in the meantime, the 1st investors came on board. Till now, we have about, I believe, 9 investors, which enabled us to, to create, the 1st prototypes. And now, actually, we just finalized, the prototype phase. And, in this year, we, we are starting the MVP phase.
Martin Cudzilo [00:27:53]:So This is actually the the very important year where we will create the 1st product, which we will launch into the market. And in the meanwhile, we will, test it with custom pilots. There is 1 or 2 you can see on our website, and The companies shown on our website are actually only the tip of the iceberg. So there are a lot of more lot lots of more companies, which we are talking to and which are interested in in using our system in the future. Mhmm.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:28:27]:I see. Are you you’ve just talked about investors. Are you open to talk to new investors, potentially new investors?
Martin Cudzilo [00:28:35]:Absolutely. I would love to. We have we have started our 3rd funding round right now, and I love to invite everybody who is quite interested in In our project, our project is, groundbreaking. It’s it’s disruptive. It will change a whole market, an entire market. And, what I can say is, I’m very deep in this business, and, I I know what it is about, And I believe that we can make this thing very, very big.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:29:08]:I do believe those are pretty amazing closing words. Martin, thank you very much for being a guest here on my podcast. Thumbs up, Chris, for your future success. And, I do believe we will link down here in the show notes your LinkedIn profile so investors could reach out to you as well as your company website and a little bit more. Thank you for being a guest here.
Martin Cudzilo [00:29:34]:Thank you for having me, Joel. Thank you very much.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:29:37]:And thank you to your Hesentrade and Invest and the European Enterprise Network for sponsoring this episode. Have a good day. Bye, guys. Bye.
Narrator [00:29:51]:That’s all, folks. Find Und more news, streams, events, and interviews at www.startuprad.i0. Remember, Sharing is
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