This story was migrated from our old blog, originally published on April 22th, 2021.
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This blog post first appeared first on old medium publication (https://medium.com/startuprad-io), and was moved to this blog with the relaunch of our website in summer 2024.
How to Headhunt Tech Talent
If you are coming to Germany, if you do not have any prior knowledge about Frankfurt, you may end up somewhere else.Time Heathcote, Tech Headhunter
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18% of startups fail due to problems in the team.Tim Heathcote, Tech Headhunter
The Founder
Tim is a British expatriate (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timheathcote/) living in Frankfurt am Main. He originally came to build up a team for a former employer, planning to move further to Berlin. He is now happy with a family in Frankfurt and does not to move anymore. He is now making a living as a headhunter in the tech space, frequently working for startup companies.
The Company
Tim has vast experience working as a recruiter, building up tech teams for example at the time of publication with the startup SumUp. The name of his company Rebel Soul Recruitment (http://rebelsoulrecruitment.com/) was inspired by a book called Soulbbatical: A Corporate Rebel’s Guide to Finding Your Best Life (AL https://amzn.to/32yHuFB).
He is looking for rebels in the sense that they are aiming to do things differently with the goal to do things better.
Go to see a game of Eintrach Frankfurt, the atmosphere is totally worth the experience. It is totally different from my experience in the UK.Tim Heathcote, Tech Headhunter
The Video Interview is set to go live on Thursday, April 22nd, 2021 at 17.00 CET (Frankfurt / Paris / Zürich / Milano)
The Audio Interview Podcast
The Audio Podcast will be published at the same time.
Further Readings / Additional Resources
The Stadion in Frankfurt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldstadion_(Frankfurt)
Frankfurt’s botanical garden: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmengarten_Frankfurt
Frankfurts Football Club Eintracht Frankfurt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eintracht_Frankfurt
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Transcript
[0:00] Music.
[0:08] That I owe you were podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startups.With News interviews and Live Events.
[0:21] Hello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startupradio your startup podcast and you to block from Germany as well as the world’s first 24/7 internet radio station dedicated to startups and,tech companies wherever you listening all,TS interview whole watching it make sure to hit the like and the Subscribe button here this time I do have an interview with Tim here hey how you doing I’m good thanks Joe yourself.
[0:52] I’m doing great thank you we actually have been in touch via LinkedIn by the way a very good way to get in touch with me and it turned out you are.British guy,Headhunter working for startups living in Frankfurt so I thought hmm so many great ideas how did he need to be with you butlet’s get started a little bit on the story what brought you to Germany to Frankfurt it wasn’t brexit right,no Wilson although that that brought its own challenges but I’ve recently had to negotiate some sure a lot of brutish people have,who were living in Germany and I came to I’ve been in Germany now I came here about end of 2009 and it’s it’s quite as sort of unusual.
[1:48] Sort of Journey really I so I came here for work I think that’s a lot ofyou know there’s the same as a lot of people would come to Frankfurt really if you’re coming to Germany and you’d not sort of had any knowledge of Frankfurt I think you probably end up at other locations for us you know Berlin naturally maybe maybe cologneMunichFrankfurt wouldn’t be a natural natural choice but I think that’s because a lot of people don’t know it myself included so I came here for business my companyand were starting up a new they were expanding from from the UK to Germany and they asked me to come out here and help build up a team here.And I been to Germany on holiday or backpacking actually about five years before.I’m really fell in love with it I had a great time in a number of cities I was in Berlin I was in Munich I was in Vine Mar I was in eisenach.I was in Hamburg and.I just had a really good feeling about it I had a you know people were really friendly I.Determinants cool to a certain degree so I could sort of.
[3:04] You know all the things and sort of navigate around and,realize how good everybody’s English was in Germany and and how good we’re your curse words in German at this time all they weren’t great but I mean all this there’s definitely books that will help you with that of which I have.And it’s always a great way to start an evening to learn another languages.Funny jokes and funny words that you shouldn’t say to people in in sentences.
[3:36] In terms of German funny words you can actually say what will be one of your favorites for many people itice crunching a squirrel oh yeah I like I like VY shy or vandu sure these are always been ones that I found particularly funny the literal translation would be like soft egg orsomebody who only takes warm showers that means they are soft right exactly I just there’s such cute little sort of insultsthey are they just,it just made me smile whatever happened that there’s another one a shot from Parker meaning a person who only Parks his or her car in the shadows that it doesn’t get warmyes yes exactly so many so many great things for that that you can learn here by being here a longer period of time.For everybody who’s seriously studying German down here in the show notes wheel I’ll spell them out for you exactly so yeah I.
[4:41] You know study you know a travelled around in Germany a little bit so I had a had a grounding of it and thenmy Plum is only to come and sort of work here for a couple of years but I think as usually is the case with people you know they they fall in loveand that you know meant that I stayed in Frankfurt longer thanHUD plan to but you know it’s now come to a point over 10 years that you know I’m settled here I have an apartment I have to,beautiful daughters and happy here,and actually interestingly enough the reason I came to Frankfurt irrationally enough was that I loved Berlin so muchthe I kind of had this plan of coming to Frankfurt using it as a stepping stone to go to Berlin and 10 years later you know I’m still in FrankfurtI don’t actually want to live in Berlin anymore and I’m very happy here so it’s just shows you know sometimes you know take take risks,you know take a chance and you know they have a really good way of working out for you in the end.
[5:48] It reminds me of a story I was talking to an Italian guy at one point when I was in Singapore and he said you know I was originally sent here as a second at the secondment for my companyI wish I was I was planning to stay 12 maximum 18 monthsthat was 22 years ago now he’s exactly every time time does fly I think anyway but I think it.It just shows you yes you you know you could kind of.Some you know your desires and you sort of goals can change over time and sometimes you need to do something else to sort of realize that.You know to have another experience to kind of challenge what you you thought you wanted.And it’s okay for things to change that before we get into serious business here talking about headhunting and recruiting.I would be curious because I always tend to say that Frankfort has some very beautiful places unfortunately it’s very good athiding them would you agree and what will be like one or two of your favorite places yeah I think you’re right I think I think you.
[7:06] I think you can’t you could say that out front foot because I think you only sort of see the.You know you only see the city center and I think when you come to Frankfurt you think all this is supposed to be a,and you know the financial capital of Germany and there’s all these skyscrapers and either you sort of impressed by it or you know you don’t you don’t like it.And you know there are lots of green areas in Frankfort,you know lots of parks lots of You Know Places to to take your kids I mean hidden,hidden gems yeah that’s a that’s an interesting one I mean I don’t know if it’s a Hidden Gem but a great place to go I think is a particularly at the moment is,you know if you are a sports fan you know to go and you know go to the what is now the you know Deutsche Bank Arena go and see eintracht Frankfurt play right if,you know coming from England I think a lot of people heart you know hold the English football in high regards okay but the fan culture here in Germany is something completely different.It’s you know I remember going to the Sea on track play and you know all the banners before the games and the standing and the chanting and the flares and the color and noise it’s such an experience,and I definitely recommend it if you’re interested in sports and you have to go there you have to experience that.
[8:28] That’s that I put his number one for a sports fan and number two I think you’ve got to you’ve got to go and just sit on the mine and you know just.Just sit there with friends and relax you know get yourself a.
[8:47] I’m talking cliches now but let’s go for it weird Frankfurt you know get yourself a you know lab avoid the the apple wine at full line and you know just sit on the.Sit on the side of the sit on the side of the mine and just just let the time pass just enjoy yourself.I think that’s a beautiful place to to go to.
[9:08] To give you some time to relax I would also like to share that Frankfurt has a beautiful like circle of parks around the.In a most city it’s the place where they used to have,the city walls and actually it’s only interrupted in one place this like this park it’s the old Oprah are very beautiful opera house that is not.The venue of the Opera right now it has a new venue but actually you can haveand it’s a place where you would go for classic concerts and or modern concerts for example I have seen their West Side Story,Summertime by Gershwin and Katie Melua okay.
[10:01] I’ve not not been there but if we,talking I mean we’re at were mine nice place to see music is if in the sum of four concerts sometimes these Department Garten is a lovely place to go to and I went there a lot in my first few years,perfect place for a first four dates,I think to take someone and there’s a lovely little Lake there and you can rent rowing boats and.Roll out that I was terrible at rowing almost fell inbut I think she had a good time anyway she later we’re still we’re still together and have children together so I guess it went well but that’s you know the bits of the bitsbotanical gardens really a Frankfort and you know some beautiful you know sort of plants and.
[10:54] Trees there and a very tranquil place to spend a nice kind of Saturday or Sunday,at the interesting stuff that I found it very beautiful botanical garden and if you walk around your only see trees and then you take a right turn and you see the trees you are on the hill and then you see all the skyline as well.Interesting combination.
[11:15] Exactly and there is actually a little area for there’s sort of an Amphitheatre area where they do have concerts I think Rufus Wainwright actually.Played there once very nice yes so Frankfurt had has a lot of nice placesit’s unfortunately good at hiding them actually Frankfurt also hit you from me for quite some time but we finally managed to connect on LinkedIn andyou are actually based in Frankfurt but your headhunter.Focusing on check but from your from your CV on LinkedIn I can at least see that you’ve been a Headhunter for quite some time how did you.
[12:04] Get from a history major to headhunter.
[12:09] To Frankfort to start your own business thank you this is a very yeah it’s a it’s an unusual journey and we first of all the history degree I mean we used to say on the course you know there’s no.
[12:19] There’s no future in it right and what can you do with a history degree you go into you know you go into teaching and but I think the so I didn’t do it with a view of.What this would lie.Assuming in terms of a career I did it because I enjoyed it and I wanted to pursue something that I enjoyed and I think that is important still in life you know to do something that you enjoy otherwise you won’t do it well.And so with that I actually actually then,went to I then went to to live in New York for about a year.And there I was actually working for I interned at record label I was working for a start-up in e-commerce that was selling it was like an online music retailer.And then I came back from there back to my hometown around Nottingham and obviously to go from sort of New York to.To Nottingham you know a huge culture shock and just want the opportunities so you know because it being such a small City that Nottingham is,and so I was really struggling as to what to do and I think this is classical of most people that are going to recruitment is they don’t,I plan to go into it you fall into it nobody grows up dreaming wanting to be a recruiter and you sort of get approached in you.
[13:48] You either like it and you stay or you don’t like it and you know you move on you know there is quite a high churn rate of people that go into the industry and then leave the industry you know I think it’s about 80% of.Recruiters don’t make it past their first year for companies in the UK.
[14:08] At least that was those were the figures at the time I was working there and when I when I went there I was I was working in Tech really so I started offI was doing sort of Oracle,I’m technology so a lot of you know database development as well and sort of Erp bi tools as or cause buying up lots of other bi tools and then.
[14:36] Was also sort of that’s where my sort of interesting in text started.And then I was doing that for about two and a half years and I got this opportunity to come to Germany and it just so happened that business in Germany was actually it didn’t have an IT function it was we were,the the sort of the the rollout there was in the life science space so I started.I switched from doing tector to life sciences and was doing that for a number of years in Frankfort,and enjoyed it was something different and again you know different skill sets so completely different to the skills and clients that I was working with in Tech but again a great way of seeing you know recruiting in a different country,the different skill sets different clients so you know help,broaden my skills as a recruiter and give me greater depth and range across a number of different verticals and industries and also countries as well,because from Germany sometimes we have projects in I remember doing project in Italy we did a project in Denmark.We working with clients in Switzerland so again had to sort of attract talents to these different locations sometimes that I didn’t even know anything about myself.
[15:52] You know we had to we had to figure out okay how do you work compliantly in Denmark what is the you know the sort of the expat tax rate,in Denmark that makes it attractive for people to go there and then I kind of felt being a company for about 10 years I sort of felt something was missing and wanted a new challenge and also my sort of interesting technews.Who is calling me again and I then took this opportunity I move companies.
[16:23] Join a smaller company that were more focused around kind ofusing digital technology so things like doing video job advertsdoing getting video CD applications from candidates using things like sort of crowd sourcing techniques that was,you know it justquote my sort of attention for digital and love at the right time and I went and worked for them but about last year.Obviously with you know with the pandemic and having so much time.Working at home to think about things I kind of realized there was more of a sort of transformation that was happening within me.But I was started to question okay well what is it that.What do I enjoy right what do I want to spend more of my time doing and what do I currently do and so I went through a number of you know went through the evaluation process and identify the things that really made me happy and these are the.
[17:29] These are the values that I I have and I put these on my website and I talked about these in my business and you know these are connection these are achievement it’s creativity Discovery and it’s respect,and these five things are sacred for me and I realized that my being.Self employed by starting my own initially going self-employed with the view to incorporate at the end of this year I.These would allow me to to live these values and achieve the goals and spend more time doing the things that I wanted to do if,went down that route so I then at the end of last year decided to leave the company and then since the beginning of this year then I’ve been self-employed and because my love is stealing my heart still intact,that’s where I wanted to to focus and what I want to do is I want to build a.You know I helping people in this connection is very important to me and so I want to help people and who can I help the best my community.
[18:36] Re I can help startups in Berlin I can help startups in Hamburg I can find the talent I’ve done it before with not even living in the country but.I really want to help my community and the people around me so I think I can as you say I know.I know Frank for very well and I know how it is to to.To move to Frankfurt and to become a German citizen you know when to set up as a freelancer and soon to become set up a business here and I can help people navigate that landscape in Frankfort as well as knowing how to attract those people,so I think that’s more of a value-add than you know helping a community that’s somewhere else so.That’s what my focus is Frank for that’s why it’s Tech and I think startups are probably the ones that need the most help because you know particularly for here in Frankfort.
[19:27] People will move to Berlin you know Berlin is already.You know one of the top 10 startup cities globally it’s known but you know Frankfurter isn’t as well known first the startup scene.So it’s going to require someone that knows the you know the landscape and knows the city a bit better to help companies attract people to come here.Yes.I can totally see that again Frankfort is very good at hiding the the bright spots in terms of tech but actually I do believe there is like a big cluster of.
[20:05] Startups coming from cities like damn start or Mannheim a little bit Southto the city of Frankfurt who really promising the people who subscribe to our podcast for quite some time may know like10:15 names from the startup scene down there in damage that they have a very good Technical University and they’re really really good at what they doteaching and the people getting out there really no,what they’re doing and a lot of them is looking at starting their own company and so how do you then help.Let’s say I’m a guy coming from whatever to Frankfort to set up shophere with the company we’re not talking about the incorporation that is a topic left topic left to somebody else but we talking I have the company I’m working there how do we recruit,Tech Team here how would that work because my understanding is your recruiting.
[21:17] You by yourself right now at the end of the year the company the Incorporated company is calledRebel Soul recruitment where does the name come from and the only recruit Rebels yes good good questionI so the name comes from came comes from a book that inspired me last year so as I was you know sitting at home.And I’m reading.
[21:44] And having time to reflect you know I read a great book by a lady called a woman called M Shelley Paxton called soul battacor,the corporate Rebels guide To Living your best life.And it inspired me I kind of had this as I said I felt that I’d been a rebel.You know I’ve definitely want it and for me I want to sort of get a clear definition of a rebel for you know Rebel for me you know somebody that wants tothere is really interesting I wanted to get a cliff in Snellville Revel isn’t a rebel somebody who doesn’t just follow mainstream,I would be curious how to define a rebel because I would define it.Him or her the other way around like not mainstream.Here are not necessarily I would say that for me it’s somebody that wants to do things.Differently with the view to making it better so it’s the end goal for me is not that you know I see a rebel of somebody that has an innovator somebody that wants to improve something not someone that’s doing something different just for the sake of it,you know that’s not.
[22:59] You know that’s you know rebelling for that’s a Rebel Without a Cause And that’s not what I am and it’s not what I think a lot of candidates are,you know we’re not and this is the thing I think people see have a some people have a negative connotation with the word rebel and see it as troublesome.You know they don’t know how to they think that they’re they’re just challenging the ideas because they’re being difficult and that’s not really what a lot of people are doing,you know I’m sure there is a small minority yes but I think,trusting that I think people are essentially good and I think essentially people want to make things better.And they’re just trying to see if there’s a better way.And that’s what essentially I believe a rebel is doing and I’m trying to build a community of these these people that care enough to be different and to do something differently and make it better.And match them with employers where they feel empowered.Where they feel valued for the Innovation that they can bring rather than in a company where there.Having their sort of curiosity hammered out of them and sort of asked to to be a.
[24:24] So I hope I hope I’ve got my definition across and as I said the also for me Rebel Soul was not only the book but I also wanted to incorporate something that.
[24:37] My Kind of Love Of Music really you know Soul music Rebel yes Rebel Rebel David Bowie one of the greatest innovators in music in the 20th century has to be said never stood still always changing,and and I wanted that to shine through in the.You know in the name and also the logo that this is my brand this is who I am and I am.You know I’m not saying you know I’m I’m trying to be inclusive if companies want to work with me I’m more than happy if you’re a big company and you want me to help attract Talent we can do that.But it needs to be I need to understand you need to understand my values and they need to.I need to understand bears and it needs to be a place where the talent and providing feels valued.And talking about recruitment because.
[25:30] In the past I always had trouble to understand why there are so many sap recruiters first and foremost days of victim and of course and then I understood as AP has different modules and you basically just,to find a person with a module experienceXY and at least five years experience with that and he just got your match and there was there was it here I assumehelping a start-up to build up a tech team isn’t that easy how much.
[26:03] Like check input would you say is required from a Founder from a CTO in order to,enable you to start recruiting like from the technical perspective from from the sky technical skill perspective not necessarily from the personality that would fit into the team but from thetechnical skills they are demanding so are you sorry just to understand the questions are you sayinghe was asking what my advice would be you know how much technical expertise the founders should have.Themselves you know my question would be if the founderlet’s say I’m a Founder I know approach you and I say okay I need tech Talent you try to match the personality the team spirit like the fit into Carpenter,in the corporate culture but how much.The other side of the technical abilities the people you’re looking for would you need to understand in order to do a good recruiter.How much should the found a give you as an input in terms of I’m looking for SQL Java C++ whateverwhat kind of level would you recommend like a thousand ER put.
[27:23] For what like for you as well as in an advertisement out there when they’re actually looking for people yeah I mean I mean I guess it depends what level you’re looking at you know where you looking for is this going to be.Is this person going to be ctOS is posting going to be you know you senior engineer and or is this going to be you know sort of a junior or a kind of you know mid-level so you know we can we need to sort of.Define that in the in the initial consultation call that we need to sort of work out what level.
[27:57] It’s a skills this person needs to have to bringyou know then I would say and also we need to make sure and this is key in a start-up as well that your salary expectations are in line with the market because you know if you want to hire a senior you know a senior Java engineer and your.You know only paying 40,000 euros.
[28:20] You know going to find that personal you know if you do find that person I’m not going to stay very long because when they do come here and they realize what the market pays they’re going to leave so,you know we need to set the expectation need to set the expectations and make sure that we are live from the very beginning.
[28:35] And then when it comes to you know the see the the founder you know doesn’t necessarily have to be a technical specialist themselves and that’s a known standardjust as that I don’t expect them to be recruitment experts themselves that’s not their job you know they’ve got lots of other,responsibilities and obligations that they need to do and that’s where I bring a solution to them,which is a plug-and-play solution so I’m giving them a hiring solution that is value based in data based so what we do is we customize it to their needs that we identify the beginning what there,what their values are.All the attributes that they want to have an employee so that as we said the kind of soft skills or human skills and that we can test for and then I can test that in the interview process and and then we have the technical sideand we can you know I then give them access to technical tests they can design their ownif I want to some companies do they have their own or I can give them access to technical test whereby you know we send out the links to the candidates and then they you know they’re doing us SQL challenge for,you know 10 30 minutes to check their their school’s their and then based on this.
[29:50] I’m helping the managers you know the the the founder really make an informed decision okay you said you wanted these attributes okay,and this level of skills here’s the here’s the scorecard let’s have a look this person is ranking here on this girl this skill this skill and we can it’s it’s.Data-driven it’s not just a gut feel.At the end of the day the client can then decide whether they want to you know whether they do want to go on more of a gut feel about somebody.That’s absolutely their right but what I’m trying to do is make it more a little bit more,scientific and a bit more give it a bit more structure because at the beginning I’m sure they probably haven’t had the time to think about these things they just need the right Talent with the right values quickly.From someone that can attract it I was thinking when you’ve been talking.
[30:47] Turning it into recruiting into from a gut feeling more data-driven decision,is pretty good we already talking for more than half an hour by nowand I think we not going to stress our audience much longer because you’ll be coming back for an episode on how to for recruiting in our entrepreneur toolsbut the question that I have right now is what I like.
[31:19] A few of the big mistakes you are seeing in terms of startup recruiting right now.In the past I’ve talked to another Headhunter to William and he said he talked about the importance of your first hires that they make or break the startup so,I will be curious what.What traps the founders should avoid what have you seen in the past the the typical mistakes Founders are making yeah I mean I’ve seen them,actually watch that episode with William and I think he he made a great you know that is a great point and it is a common mistake and I think you.You know he talked about.
[32:08] Choosing your values and then pursuing the relentlessly and I think this is I’ve seen this happen in startups a lot of times and you kind of,sometimes I think people are so Keen to get the talent that they compromise a compromise on certain things and it hurts them so for example they might take a senior,and they might.Make allowances in somebody’s character in somebody’s values to take that senior engineer because of his ex or her expertise but really that person is not what the environment needs it’s not right for the culture.And then when you get.
[32:46] When you you have problems in the culture your it doesn’t matter how good that person is there not if they can’t work together if they there’s an ego if they don’t know how to work in a team if they’re not humble problems will come.
[32:59] And this is why.You know eighty percent of startups actually fail due to team problems you know so and how frustrating is that you know that’s you’ve got the.You know you’ve got the you’ve got the market fit you know you got the market you’ve got the you got the idea you’ve got the product fit you’ve got the investment getting Traction in the market.And then you know explode because you’ve got the wrong people on the bus.These are things that can be and should be avoided I think,it’s easy to you know it’s easy to go there and look don’t get me wrong I’ve been a manager in myself and I’ve I’ve built teams and I’ve got things wrong right I’ve made bad decisions by you know compromising values for.You know for profit I know it I know it happens but.Stick true to to what you doing to what your values are and that will that will stand you in good stead once you’ve got that core team of people and they’re good people.
[34:04] Then you could achieve things that are just amazing closing words.For everybody who would like to learn more reach out you down here in the show notes they will be your personal LinkedIn profileas well as your company website and of course we will have you back for another episode on recruiting here on startupradio do.
[34:28] It was just a by having you as a guest talking everything from history to Frankfort to a tech recruiting I didn’t expect that that to come out of the interview but it’s great the way it is,thank you very much,for being a guest here and welcome thank you Joe thanks for having me my pleasure if you are a professional looking at the European startup scene Germany is a place you cannot miss.
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[35:04] Interviews each week most likely you have never heard or read anything only startups before in English but you will in the future be ahead of the curve And subscribe to stay.
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