Executive Summary
In this episode of Startuprad.io, Nobel Laureate and former U.S. Secretary of Energy Steven Chu discusses the challenges and potential of nuclear energy, advocating for small modular reactors as a safer, cost-effective alternative to large reactors. He addresses geopolitical issues, the role of nuclear power in energy security, and Germany’s nuclear phase-out. The episode also explores U.S. and European green energy policies, emphasizing the importance of storage technology for renewable energy adoption. Chu highlights collaboration and investment as key for energy startups and dispels fears around low-level radiation risks.
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Introduction
Welcome to another insightful episode of Startuprad.io! I'm your host, Jörn "Joe" Menninger, and today we have the honor of speaking with Nobel Laureate and former U.S. Secretary of Energy, Professor Steven Chu. In this episode, we'll dive into the complexities of sustainable energy solutions and the future of green and energy startups. Professor Chu shares his expertise on the challenges and opportunities in the nuclear sector, advocating for the potential of small modular reactors as a cost-effective and safer alternative. We’ll also explore his thoughts on the transition to renewable energy, with fascinating comparisons between U.S. and European policies, and discuss the critical role of storage technology in reaching high renewable energy targets. Whether you’re an entrepreneur in the energy sector or just curious about the future of energy innovation, this episode is packed with invaluable insights. So, tune in and join us for a deep dive into the future of energy with one of the foremost experts in the field.
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Questions Discussed in the Interview
Challenges in Nuclear Energy:
- What are some of the main challenges that Steven Chu highlights regarding the construction of large nuclear reactors, especially in terms of budget and time management?
Small Modular Reactors (SMRs):
- Steven Chu advocates for small modular reactors as an alternative to larger nuclear reactors. Can you explain how SMRs might benefit from a manufacturing learning curve, similar to what we've seen with industries like automotive production?
Safety and Environmental Benefits:
- How do small modular reactors offer advantages in terms of safety and the disposal of spent nuclear fuel, according to Steven Chu?
Geopolitical Considerations:
- Chu mentions nuclear energy as a reliable alternative to Russian gas. How does he suggest that nuclear energy can help address geopolitical energy challenges?
Germany's Nuclear Phase-Out:
- What are Chu's views on Germany's nuclear power phase-out, and what does he think about the possibility of reactivating nuclear reactors to support energy-intensive industries?
Green Technology Transition in Europe vs. U.S.:
- Comparing the U.S. and Europe, what lessons does Professor Chu believe U.S. green startups can learn from European counterparts, particularly from Germany's experience with solar energy?
Renewable Energy and Storage:
- Steven Chu emphasizes the need for advanced utility-scale storage to achieve high percentages of renewable energy. Why is storage technology so crucial for the transition to renewable energy, and what are the current limitations?
Seasonal Storage Options:
- Considering the limitations of seasonal storage, especially in regions without suitable geography for hydroelectric power, what alternatives could potentially support higher renewable energy adoption?
Personal Energy Consumption Choices:
- Steven Chu mentions considering the installation of solar panels and owning an old car. How do these personal choices reflect the broader conversation about energy efficiency and sustainable consumption?
Startups and Collaboration:
- According to Chu, large investments and collaboration with bigger companies are key for the success of energy startups. What specific examples or strategies did he offer to support this assertion?
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The Guest
In this compelling episode of Startuprad.io we are honored to welcome an exceptional guest, Steven Chu. A Nobel laureate in Physics and former U.S. Secretary of Energy, Chu brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table. Not only has he made groundbreaking contributions to our understanding of atomic physics, but he also played a pivotal role in shaping America's energy policy during his tenure. His deep commitment to sustainable energy solutions and innovation makes him an invaluable voice in the current conversation surrounding green technology and startups.
Steven Chu's rich background and impressive career add a profound depth to our discussion. With a distinguished academic career, including roles at Stanford University and the University of California, Berkeley, Chu is lauded for his scientific achievements and dedication to addressing urgent global challenges such as climate change.
He has been a staunch advocate for advanced nuclear technologies, particularly small modular reactors, which he believes can offer safer, more economical, and more scalable energy solutions. His insights draw upon his extensive background in both scientific research and public policy, providing listeners with a nuanced view of the complexities and opportunities in the energy sector. Join us as we explore his compelling perspectives on the future of green and energy startups, the transition to renewable energy, and the critical role of nuclear power in achieving a sustainable future.
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Automated Transcript
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:00:11]:
Hello, and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from startup rate dot o, your startup podcast and YouTube blog from Germany. Today, we bring you another interview in connection with our attendance of Cures 2024. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome professor Steven Chu here with me. Welcome.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:00:30]:
Glad to be here.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:00:32]:
You are a noble lord, a former US Energy Secretary, professor. Will, you're holding the William r Gannon Junior Professorship of Physics, Molecular and Cellular Physiology at Stanford University, and you've made groundbreaking contributions to the fields of laser cooling, biophysics, and renewable energy. This interview is conducted in connection with the curious 2024 held in lines, promises to delve into professor's work. Just a tiny bit. We won't take up too much of your available time. Let us start right away with our questions. As someone who observed and influenced energy policies in in both the US and Europe. What do you see as the main difference between the two regions in terms of supporting and nurturing green and energy startups?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:01:37]:
Well, I would have to say that Europe, especially Western Europe, has been much more in the forefront, of trying to make a transition away from, carbon emitting technologies to to green tech. I think the the exception would be in the Biden administration. The Inflation Reduction Act has was a very, very, huge support in terms of mostly tax breaks to to further, green technologies. But, before that, I think Europe has been a leader in trying to simulate this transition.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:02:18]:
Mhmm. Just my pure personal assumption, if a Republican president would win again, I don't think those energy breaks will live any longer than necessary.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:02:30]:
That's probably true. Although there was an attempt in the legislation, for example, in in stimulating trying to create a market for for a hydrogen economy. There is no market. Substantial tax breaks were put into the inflation reduction act. And the hope was in I didn't really study the law that closely, but I've been I heard that it's there for 10 years. Now anything could happen if a republican administration comes back in because they're clearly not in favor of that. In fact, that candidate has said very loudly, he's gonna go back to drill, maybe drill.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:03:16]:
I do believe he says a lot quite loudly. Let's go to the next question. Europe has been at the forefront of renewable energy initiatives for years. In your opinion, what lessons can you ask green startups learn from the European counterparts to enhance their growth and impact?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:03:37]:
Well, one of the things that I'll, specifically mention Germany, First, they started startup, strong subsidies to promote solar, but they did more than that. And and that really started started, the interest and eventually for temporarily the overproduction of solar, which drove the prices down. But, we are now in a position where solar is continuing to make great advances in lowering the cost. But the thing that I admire a lot is when I was secretary of energy, I was looking at why is Germany, which doesn't have as good sun as the United States, by far shut? Why is Germany leading solar? Why are they actually doing this? And one of the things I noticed was that they made the process of a homeowner wants to put solar on their roof for a small business. They made it very easy. In the United States, it was determined by state, by local cities and counties, and they actually made it hard. They wanted to use the licensing of solar on a rooftop as a source of income. And I used to give speeches and said, look.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:04:49]:
Why don't you get your income the old fashioned way by using speed traps? These these are traps that catch cars speeding through their town and leave solar out of this because they would charge several $1,000 inspection fees, all these other fees. Whereas I looked at Germany and said, it all seems to be online, seamless, to actually help, businesses and homeowners put solar in their roof. And so there were many things that were different, in the way, United States promoted solar versus versus Germany. Some states are catching up, but still, it it's it's still you know, how do you make it seamless? How do you make it so that people want to put solar at the minimal licensing green, inspections? For example, I used to say that, if you wanna install a hot water heater in your home, let's suppose it's a a gas heater, then the rules are that there needs to be an inspector to make sure the gas plumbing was hooked up correctly. But other than that, if the water heater leaks, that's between you and your plumber. And and, similarly, my feeling was, if you hook up solar in a rooftop, you need an inspector to make sure that it will interface with the, grid, the distribution system in a way that doesn't break it down or or or harm it in any way. If the roof leaks, that's between you and the installer. And so, you know, I was urging that we have the minimum amount of responsible inspection, and the rest is up to, the individual contract between you, the installer, and and the government shouldn't be part of that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:06:46]:
What what also came to mind when you've been talking because, when you talked, about the sun, I I vividly remember the high temperatures when I was attending college in Texas. I do believe you also do have some other challenges in terms of when you want to use solar energy. I'm thinking of states like Arizona, Texas, and Nevada, and so on and so forth. And then you need all the technology to get this really transported for long distances. I'm thinking, for example, California, New York, and the other urban green. Maybe maybe even, Chicago because, apparently, they also don't have a lot of good sun there.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:07:26]:
Well, that is absolutely true. If you look at the solar map, the southwestern United States, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, superb solar. Really, really some of the best around the world. There are a few other places that are slightly better, but but we do need, the transportation grid. We also are beginning to see that for example, in California, which is now 70% of our electricity is carbon green. And we're installing more solar, but there's now so much solar that at noontime, when the sun is at its peak, there's beginning to be a surplus of solar energy. And so California is trying as much as it can to start to build utility scale batteries at the tens of gigawatts and gigawatt hour capacity. But there's going to be an issue because the as you pointed out, the that part of the United States can have very, very hot summers.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:08:34]:
The peak of the air conditioning would be around 3 or 4 o'clock in in the afternoon, not at noontime. And so you have an excess of, renewable energy at noon. And then and then there's a sudden ramp up we would need that would be at the level of 3, 4, 5 gigawatt in terms of power ramping up in a few hours. And so this is, again, another one of the challenges when you you have a big economy. And, also, to take advantage of solar, you'd still need a lot of energy storage. And, Germany every country who wants to go above 50% renewable, 60, 70%, hopefully even higher, then storage becomes a key. And utility scale storage has to be much more reliable than storage in an electric vehicle. Car breaks down, it's okay.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:09:35]:
You know, it's, you know, say, 1 in a 1 in a 1000000 cars will break down. But if you get a blackout, that's less okay. And and so those are some of the requirements. I don't know It's been estimated in order to get 3 days storage in the United Startup, in 3 days, it will actually allow us to go to 80% renewable. And 3 days doesn't sound like much, but we are barely at the one day storage. And and so, the difference between one day and 3 days is you effectively use your asset, your battery, one out of 3 days. And so the the economic demand on a lower cost energy storage becomes higher and higher. You go to a 1 month startup, What does that mean? Do you use your asset once a month? And finally, seasonal storage.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:10:32]:
The only seasonal storage we have is actually hydroelectric power, And and, you know, you would try to maximize, the high electric power you do have, but, it's geography dependent, and not all places have good mountains. For example, Germany, does not have the mountains that Norway and Switzerland and even Austria have.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:11:00]:
Oh, yeah. Austria, I interviewed a a a guest there. He's, his startup is in construction, and he told me, yeah, we have maybe in a good year, 7 months of construction going on. Be before we move on, I was curious when you were talking about solar. Do you have solar panels on the roof of your house?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:11:20]:
Yes. This is an embarrassing question. The answer is no. What we do do is we're in we have a ranking of how much electricity families use. We my wife and I, are, you know, children are gone. And so we are in the lowest 10% of energy use in our area. And the question is, do I put in solar? Do I have an EV? Things of that nature. I probably will put in solar.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:11:56]:
It's not gonna actually have any economic return for me because, the payback might be 10, 15 years. I'm not sure I'll be living in this house in 15 years. But I will probably put in solar in the next year. I have another conundrum with my car. It's, it's 22 years old. I only drive it 1,200 miles a year. The question is, why do I even own a car? I do I ride my bicycle to work. I I errands, anything less than a few miles, I'll I'll ride my bicycle.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:12:36]:
I can do this in California because most of the time, the weather's very good. But, the short answer to your question is not yet in terms of solar. But the the the problem was our roof has a, a Spanish tile, roof, and most solar installers won't touch that. And so, finally, I did look into it a year ago and found that in order to install this on a Spanish tile roof, you actually have to take off the Spanish tiles, replace it with some look alike concrete tiles, and then they're willing to put solar on the roof. So it's it's a much bigger deal. But, I will do this.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:13:19]:
By the way, I actually know how you're feeling. When I went to college, during my apprenticeship, high school and so on and so forth, I needed a car, and I kept it until it was 25, and it was almost breaking startup.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:13:32]:
Well, this car is in good shape. It it only has 75,000 miles, and I inherited from my wife. It's an old BMW 325. That car, you know, 75,000 miles, that car will go at least 200,000 miles. So, hopefully, it will be the last car I own in my life. If it breaks down, then I will buy a electric vehicle. But, you know, it's and I don't drive it very much at all.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:14:04]:
Considering your extensive background in green renewable energy and your role in initiatives like RPA E, what do you believe are key factors that would drive the next wave of successful energy startups in both U. S. And Europe?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:14:22]:
Well, I think the experience we've had in RPE where we've funded a number of companies, they're successful in the usual startup up definition, meaning after, let's say, 8 years, 10 years, they could have a $1,000,000,000 evaluation. They have a runway of, 3 or $400,000,000, 3 years to do something. And and when I look at those companies, I see they've just begun. There's at that level, there is not massive deployment. And so if you think about we where where we need to be, I've been spending a lot of time thinking, how do you get from this $1,000,000,000 valuation, $300,000,000 of cash runway, dozens of people, but but really not at the scale you need to begin to really change carbon emissions and energy use. And so you need the next step would be much larger investments. Typically, the investors in a start up company, the old mentality is that you wanna maximize your investment. You don't wanna share IP.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:15:44]:
The best of all possible worlds, either you become fabulously successful like Google, or you get bought up by a a big company. For I'm gonna make up a number, you know, a $1,000,000,000. It's good for the investors, but, it's the big companies that have the the real resources, financial resources. And so how do you team up these innovative startups with the bigger companies that might have more inertia so that you have a combination of of financial assets, more connection to markets, but you have the innovative energy and drive and hard work of a small startup. You know, if I look at people who work at start ups, they're working 60, 70, 80 hours a week. You're in a big company, and you have regular hours.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:16:39]:
I see. The the the last question was actually inspired. You gave an interview, to the German newspaper, F. A. Z. They made the headline something, if the greens were reasonable, they would prefer, nuclear energy. So my question is, how do you view the future of nuclear energy with a broader context of renewable energy sources, especially when comparing the strategies and policies in place in the US and Europe?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:17:10]:
Okay. This this is a very important question. There is a lot of strong opinions and sentiments, about nuclear. Many of them are against nuclear, but for a variety of reasons. But the question really is, suppose you want to get to as high a fraction of renewables as possible, and, energy storage, as they said, compact turn on source of energy for electricity, and I see that in the future as being either natural gas or nuclear. I don't see coal in the long term as having much of a future. It's very dangerous in particulate matter. It's very polluting.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:18:04]:
And with natural gas, you need to be able to capture the carbon dioxide and sequester it. But it's also known that when you're drilling for natural gas, recovering it, 2 to maybe 6% of the natural gas comes out of the ground. And in the capture of the carbon dioxide, you're capturing 90%, maybe 92, but you're not gonna capture 95%. So there's always an overhead there. And then finally, the sequestration of the carbon dioxide is not trivial. The amount of carbon dioxide you actually have to to sequester safely is huge compared to amount of spent fuel you have to sequester. Now the the conundrum about nuclear, besides there are some fears, I do my best to try to explain that, and most people don't realize that, for example, in the food you eat, roughly 30 or 40% of it is in radioactivity in the food. This is naturally occurring radioactivity.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:19:13]:
For example, potassium that occurs in meat and in and bananas and, many things. We eat green vegetables. The the health people, the federal FDA, say there's recommended daily requirements for potassium, but, it's not a question of actually endangering your health. The radioactivity levels, depending on your diet and where you live, could vary by factors of 3 or 4. It is background radiation, and there's no correlation at all between that and cancer. So at these very low levels, it's not a danger. And and so one of the things that, people need to be assured of is the chance of a contamination is very small. I believe it can be made even smaller.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:20:16]:
The radioactive waste disposal, if I look at countries like Finland and Sweden, they're making good progress in spent fuel, and it's, it's compact, and it's carbon free. Now despite all of that, what has happened is we've forgotten how to build large nuclear reactors on budget, on time. And as long as they are very expensive and are have a possibility of going over budget and the more recent ones have gone over budget, we're talking $10,000,000,000 for per 1 gigawatt electrical power. You go over budget by 50%, that $5,000,000,000 extra is a huge financial hole. So the industry has to learn how to build them on budget.com. I personally think, there's another approach. I've been advocating this since 2010 where you make small modular reactors. Instead of a gigawatt to 1 and a half gigawatts, they're a 100 megawatts.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:21:18]:
They're factory made under so they can be on much more stringent conditions. But the most important thing is instead of billing them 1 at a time, imagine that you can start with a 1,000 orders and you go and maybe several models and you you have these small modular reactors. There's a rule in business, called a learning curve. It's not a fundamental rule of science. But, the more you produce, the better you are at lowering the manufacturing costs, and there's also steady improvements. And so what happens in learning curves is if, for example, you double the number of units, the price the manufacturing cost goes down by a certain percentage. You double again, it goes down by a certain percentage. So that means that if you're going up by factors of 10 in shipping out things, the cost goes down by some slope.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:22:22]:
It's a percentage, so it's an exponential decline. This is well known in all manufacturing. When Tesla was making model s's and selling 5 or 10,000, a year, they were losing money even though the cars cost a 100, $120,000. They make a model y, model 3. They cost 50, $60,000, but they're selling half a1000000, making lots of money. And so the idea of a learning curve is, true at everything except a few things like nuclear. Nuclear because there's big projects and there's just a few big projects. So I say, let's turn it around.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:23:07]:
Let's make lots of little guys in factories that you can ship on a truck. After 10 years, you ship it back. You refuel it. You ship it. So it's inherently much safer. It could even be designed, that it would be seamless to to take these smaller modular reactors and deal integrate that with the spent fuel issue. In the end now there are at least a dozen startup companies looking at small modular reactors. There's also a few countries, China, Russia, for example, are are doing these.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:23:44]:
But I think that could be a way, to be decrease any risk of contamination. There's always some risk, but you make it very, very small. And so the risks, for example, of getting in an airplane, flying somewhere, people don't really think I may die. It's it's so small that, and and whenever there's an incident, a near miss, something, or even a crash, the whole world looks at what happened and tries to figure out what happened. And so that ethic and that way of, promoting safety year after year after year or decade after decade, airplane flight is gaining, more and more safe. The same same thing could be true of nuclear. And maybe this learning curve model of making lots of them will enable the cost to go down. But you need those things, and you need public trust that, the chance of contamination is very, very small.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:24:53]:
Now burning anything, whether it's natural gas or coal coal is the worst because of the particulate matter. But, if you look at the danger of various forms of energy per unit energy that's produced per terawatt hour, nuclear is perhaps, thousands of times, more dangerous. Sorry. Coal is 1,000 of times more dangerous than nuclear because of particulate matter. In the studies, nuclear is as safe as wind and solar. It's a 100 times safer than burning wood pellets, that some European countries do because of, again, because of the particular matter. So so these are things that hopefully as as we understand the climate risks and how important they are, and there has to be some compact turn on source of power just in case you run out of battery storage. You need something.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:25:59]:
And I think that nuclear should be part of the future energy source.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:26:07]:
I do under I do believe that at one point, we need to realize the tornadoes, the hurricanes, the thaw the storms, the floodings, and so on and so forth. They'll only get worse if we don't change our way of living, and, I believe at one point, we need to do a more radical change, especially in our energy production where Germany did the interesting step of getting rid of all nuclear power. So not sure about as a final question of your opinion of that, what do you believe will happen? Are we going to reactivate them or have a lot of, smaller nuclear power plants here in Germany at one point in the future?
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:26:55]:
Well, that's a difficult question, and I don't really know the details. When I, talk with people in Germany, you know, once a nuclear power plant is shut down for a few years, they say, no. It's difficult to start up. There was a time when there were and they were not that old. The United States, for example, is going ahead. And for most of the power plants, with a few exceptions, meaning that, these, seas grew near these power plants, nuclear power plants, most of the power plants, nearly a 100 in the United States, are going to be relicensed for another 20 years. The initial licensing was 40 years, but it was a very conservative licensing. And, the Nuclear Regulatory Agency Commission is is methodically going through and on a reactor by reactor basis making a determination.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:27:53]:
Are they gonna be safe for another 20 year operation? And so far, for the most part, versus all of them are, I think the same could have been done for the German reactors. But what's done is done. And now the question is, is it feasible to restart? That I have to honestly say I would have to talk to the people who just mothballed these reactors. Starting a new generation of reactors, it's not gonna make an influence on carbon emissions for 10 or 20 years. You know, you're looking at a lead time of getting approval for any new modular reactor. A large reactor is typically a decade from the time you decide we're gonna build it to the time you can turn it on if it's it's, doesn't meet delays. And so, we are where we are, but it's a very, very different place, because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and essentially a rearming of NATO, we seem to be going back to a very cold war mentality. And then the question is, before it was going to be cheap Russian gas, it's going to be the transition of the German energy.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:29:20]:
If you use liquefied natural gas, it's more expensive. And then, again, you that has to be folded in. If the energy prices in Germany go too high, I'm afraid that many of your heavy industries, much of your wealth creation is in automobiles, steel, chemicals. These are heavily energy intensive industries. And so if you wanna remain competitive as a supplier of these materials, energy costs cannot go up that much. I think nuclear can play a role in this, especially if if, one doesn't want to turn back to Russian gas. And there are very complicated reasons why you might not want to do that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:30:11]:
I do believe we don't want to do that. Professor Chu, it was a pleasure having you as a guest. Thank you very much.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:30:19]:
Okay. Thank you, and I wish you all good luck.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:30:23]:
Thank you. Good luck with the car and your solar panel installation.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:30:27]:
Okay. Right. Bye.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger | CEO and Founder Startuprad.io [00:30:29]:
Bye bye.
Steven Chu | Academic | Nobel Laureate | former U.S. Secretary of Energy [00:30:30]:
Bye.
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