Executive Summary
In this episode of Startuprad.io, host Jörn "Joe" Menninger interviews Ish Dhand, CEO and Co-Founder of QC Design, recognized as the newcomer of the year and winner of the German Startupradio Awards 2024. They discuss Ish's journey from studying quantum computing in Canada, India, and Germany to working at Xanadu. QC Design focuses on developing software that aids quantum hardware manufacturers, aiming to make quantum computing economically viable and programmable. The company adopts lean startup principles, seeks talented individuals, and emphasizes quantum computing's potential to revolutionize industries, particularly in drug discovery and materials simulation.
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Introduction
Welcome to another episode of Startuprad.io. In today's episode, host Jörn "Joe" Menninger sits down with Ish Dhand, the esteemed CEO and Co-Founder of QC Design. Ish, recognized as The Newcomer of the Year at the German Startupradio Awards 2024, brings a wealth of knowledge in quantum computing, having studied and worked across Canada, India, and Germany. In this engaging discussion, Ish shares insights on QC Design's pioneering work in quantum computer tomography and their mission to enable efficient and economically viable quantum computers.
From applying lean startup principles to deep tech, to addressing the challenges of transitioning academic research into commercial ventures, Ish highlights the company's commitment to revolutionizing industries like drug discovery and material science through advanced quantum computing. You'll also hear about QC Design's efforts in recruiting top talent, their current funding round, and the groundbreaking potential of quantum computing in solving real-world problems that classical computers can’t.
Join us as we delve into the future of quantum computing with one of the industry's most promising innovators. Stay tuned!
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German Startup Awards Coverage since 2021
This interview is in a media partnership with the German startup association (Bundesverband Deutscher Startups https://deutschestartups.org/). Their German Startup Awards #GSA24 honor each year outstanding female and male founders and investors in special categories. You can learn more about the winners in our interview and on this website: https://germanstartupawards.de/gsa-2024
Questions Discussed in the Interview
Career Path: - How did Ish Dhand's educational background in quantum computing across Canada, India, and Germany shape his approach to founding QC Design?
Quantum Computing Challenges: - What are the main challenges in the development of a large-scale, error-corrected quantum computer, and how does QC Design address these challenges?
Algorithm Development: - Can Ish Dhand elaborate on the efficient algorithm for quantum computer tomography developed by QC Design and its significance in understanding quantum computer operations?
Economic Viability: - Why is it crucial for quantum computing to be economically viable and easily programmable, and how is QC Design working towards these goals?
Lean Startup Principles Applied to Deep Tech: - How are lean startup principles applied at QC Design, and what benefits do they bring to the development process of quantum computing technologies?
Industry Impact: - In what ways could quantum computing revolutionize industries such as drug discovery, material science, and AI, and what role does QC Design play in these potential advancements?
Collaboration and Expansion: - QC Design works with about half a dozen hardware companies. What are the strategies for expanding this client base, and what types of partnerships are most beneficial?
Talent and Recruitment: - What specific skills and qualifications is QC Design looking for in potential team members, and how does the company plan to attract and retain top quantum computing talent?
Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs: - Ish Dhand mentioned friction in transitioning ideas from academic research to commercial ventures. What actionable advice does he have for aspiring deep tech entrepreneurs to overcome these barriers?
Future of Quantum Computing and AI: - How does Ish Dhand envision the future convergence of quantum computing and AI, and what steps are being taken to ensure that these technologies complement each other effectively?
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The Founder
In this episode of Startuprad.io, we're delighted to welcome Ish Dhand, the dynamic CEO and Co-Founder of QC Design (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ishdhand/). Celebrating their 4th remarkable collaboration with the German startup association, Ish stands tall as the newcomer of the year and the proud recipient of the German Startupradio Awards 2024. With an impressive academic journey that spans Canada, India, and Germany, Ish honed his expertise in quantum computing. His exceptional accomplishments earned him significant accolades from the president and the prime minister of India. Following his distinguished academic career at the University of Calgary, he moved to Germany before joining Xanadu, a leading quantum computing unicorn, in Canada.
Ish's remarkable journey in the realm of quantum computing has been nothing short of inspirational. At QC Design, he and his team are revolutionizing the field by developing a groundbreaking algorithm for quantum computer tomography, enabling them to decode the intricate operations of quantum computers. Their innovative software accelerates the design of quantum hardware, pushing the boundaries of efficiency and effectiveness. Collaborating with prominent hardware companies, they envision a future where quantum computing is both economically viable and easily programmable. More than just a technological leap, Ish underscores the vital importance of making quantum computing accessible and practical, emphasizing a commitment to educational empowerment and entrepreneurial dynamism in the deep tech startup ecosystem.
The Startup
QC Design (https://www.qc.design/), co-founded by Ish Dhand, is at the forefront of enhancing quantum computing technology through their innovative software solutions. Specialized in developing efficient algorithms for quantum computer tomography, QC Design helps hardware manufacturers get a precise understanding of what their quantum systems are doing. This capability is pivotal for optimizing the design and functionality of quantum computers, accelerating the journey from theoretical research to practical applications. The startup is currently collaborating with about half a dozen hardware companies and aims to expand its client base as they push towards their long-term vision of creating economically viable, easily programmable quantum machines. As they are in the midst of a funding round, QC Design is actively seeking investors to scale their team and further develop their flagship product, which serves as an electronic design automation tool for quantum computing.
What sets QC Design apart from the competition is their deep-rooted expertise and the application of lean startup principles to deep tech innovation. Under Ish Dhand's leadership, the company emphasizes a build-measure-learn iteration loop akin to scientific methods, enabling rapid prototyping and customer validation. This agile approach in a complex field like quantum computing allows QC Design to stay ahead of the curve and adapt quickly to technological advancements and market needs. Another distinguishing factor is their focus on error-corrected quantum design, aiming to make quantum computing accessible for billions of people without requiring them to learn new programming languages. This, combined with their participation in a world-record tomography of a 14-qubit computer, underscores their capability and ambition to carve out a significant niche in the burgeoning quantum computing industry.
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Hiring!
QC Design is always looking for dedicated individuals. You can learn more here: https://www.qc.design/careers
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Automated Transcript
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:00:00]:
Maybe that helps. Madhu, that's a special message for you. Ish likes to think about his questions. So can we cut off the silence before he talks? Right, Ish?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:00:10]:
Absolutely. Thanks so much.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:00:11]:
Awesome. Great. So hello and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from celebrate.au, your Startupradio podcast, YouTube blog, and Internet radio station from Germany, bringing you news and interviews from the German Startupradio scene. Today, I'm delighted to kick off again our, I do believe, 4th cooperation with the German startup association where we interview the winners of the German Startupradio awards. Today, I would like to welcome the newcomer of the year, German Startupradio Awards 2024. Hello, and congratulations.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:00:50]:
Thanks so much. It's my pleasure to be here.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:00:53]:
It's it's awesome that you are here. We already had a lot of fun before this interview started. Maybe maybe we can give you a sneak peek into what we've been talking about. But first, as always, we'll be talking a little bit about you. You are joining me from lovely Ulm, but you have not always been there. When I've been looking in your LinkedIn profile, by the way, as always, LinkedIn, our blog post, You studied in Canada, University of Calgary, India, India Institute of Technology in, how is it pronounced, Canpur?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:01:27]:
Kanpur. Yes.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:01:28]:
Kanpur. And in Germany, University of Ulm, and as all Germans, we always have the tongue twist in mind. In Can can you take us a little bit through this journey including I've seen, you have been awarded the, the the National Child Award for exceptional achievement by the prime minister of India in 2,006. You must have done something outstanding. Can you tell us a little bit about this before we, dig a little bit deeper in what you've been doing? Plus, did you have a lot of warm socks in Calgary?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:02:08]:
Let's start with the last question. Yes. Warm socks. Absolutely. The best warm socks are what you get in Calgary. Yeah. Talking a little bit about how it was like growing up in India. I I think I'm really grateful for a lot of effort put in, for example, in finding young talent and giving them opportunities that are otherwise hard to come across.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:02:31]:
So there were a couple of, opportunities for me as as, in, let's say, 9th grade or 10th grade where we had the possibility to be challenged in science creativity. So, lots and lots of top scientists would come together with with these young kids from the age of 10 to 20 or Joe. And, then they would basically challenge these kids to do something creative, which means, from everyday objects that you find around the house, can you make something that's truly new? Not just reproducing textbook experiments, but make something truly new. And this was the National Paltry Award. And here the award was given by the president of India. Back then, this was, APJ Abdul Kalam, who is 1 of the top rocket scientists in the world and, spent a lot of time in NASA and then, also set up the rocket program in India or really took it forward quite a bit. And following from that, there was the National Child Award for exceptional achievement by the prime minister of India, where it was really a similar situation from every province in India. They chose 1 kid for basically going above and beyond and expose expose them to opportunities which are otherwise quite hard to get.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:03:46]:
So those were really formative experiences for me, growing up in India.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:03:53]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. I see. And how did you end up in Calgary by because being from India or from Germany, you don't think about studying in Calgary. You have other universities, especially in the US, in the UK, or even in Australia in mind. How did you end up in Calgary, and how did you like it?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:04:12]:
Interesting. So I did my undergrad, as you mentioned in IIT Kanpur. This was an amazing place. I focused as an undergrad on doing computer science. That was my major, and it was basically 1 of the top programs in the world. And also I was very interested in physics and Kanpur gave me this possibility of being at the frontier of both computer science and physics. During my time there, I learned something very cool about quantum computing, which is that if any civilization anywhere in the world is building the ultimate computing machine then this computing machine is basically a universal quantum computer. So I was very interested in quantum computing during my time, in my undergrad at IIT Kanpur.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:05:08]:
So starting out from computer science, then the next stop was to basically look for a physics master's or PhD and, try to explore this new field of quantum computing. I applied, of course, to top universities in the US, lots of good universities in Canada. And basically, I got rejected from every single US university. I I think, from their perspective, I really understand what is this computer science guy trying to do here in the physics department. But then, in Calgary, there is a strong core of quantum computing researchers, including my PhD supervisor, Barry Sanders. And Barry really saw the potential in working at the interface. And, then Barry took me on as a master's student, Very quickly switched to a PhD program in 3 years or Joe. Finished the PhD.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:06:01]:
Did some really incredible work with Barry at that time. I was really happy with what came out of the PhD. And, Yeah. That's that's how Calgary happened.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:06:11]:
I see. So they're very good in quantum computing. Uh-huh. We may add that the, India Institute of Technology, IIT, is 1 of the premier institutions of educations in India. And now we have this piece. Then it doesn't take a much longer way to understand how you ended up in a quantum computing unicorn. But first, let us take a little break, for our sponsor. Our sponsor, StartupRadio raven.com, the best way to find and investors and corporation partners for early stage startups.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:06:53]:
You can sign up for early access at StartupRadio, and we may tease that we've covered the German StartupRadio since 2021, so in the 4th year now. And down here in the show notes, we will give you a link to playlist of 21, 22, 23, and you're the first 1 of 24, but hopefully not the last 1. So as I was teasing, you ended up working in Toronto, at a quantum computing unicorn, Xanadu. Was this a connection from the university?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:07:29]:
Not so much from the University of Calgary. So Mhmm. I think we we moved to Sanadu, but, maybe 1 can talk a bit about from Calgary, I actually then moved to Germany. Mhmm. And I think the German, experience is actually then what led me to, to Xanadu. So talking a bit about That
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:07:51]:
is an interesting twist. You came from India to Calgary to Germany only to go back to Canada.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:07:58]:
Absolutely. Quantum computing is an international is a very, very international activity right now. Mhmm. We're all working at the frontier of human knowledge. So geography, I think, doesn't stop, people from basically working on cool things.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:08:14]:
Okay. Okay. So you came to Ulm here in Germany. Right?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:08:18]:
Yes. Absolutely. I spent around 3 and a half years, doing a postdoc with, Martin Plenio, who is now the cofounder of QC Design, actually, the StartupRadio along with me. And so in those 3 and a half years, I think 1 of the things that happened was we started to see quantum computing as a field go from something that happens only in the lab to something which is actually of true potential and something where actually humanity can start to use the fruits of quantum computing. This was the time from 2016 to 2019. I was fortunate enough to be able to work with Martin, more on that in a moment, but also to be able to work with the top experimental groups in the world and really see this technology coming out of the lab. So it was only natural that basically by the end of my time there, I wanted to do something useful, something that actually we can build, you know, a real quantum computer that's useful. And, Xanadu was the best place for this.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:09:25]:
Mhmm. I see. And they actually, headed a team. Right?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:09:30]:
Yes. I headed the architecture team, 1 of the 3 teams. Very proud of the work that the team did there. So 1 of the things that we worked on was to come up with the first true blueprint for building a useful quantum computer with light. And, it was an amazing experience because in 6 to 9 months, basically, we put together a team of top researchers in that specific field in whatever capacity. We were able to align this team towards working on 1 single goal, which is, I think, quite nontrivial because often we are working with top researchers who are very independent minded. And with that aligned team, we were able to work together and deliver something which really pushes forward how humans think about quantum computing. So that blueprint project is something I'm very proud of in terms of how how well the team accomplished it.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:10:31]:
Be before we get into that, so quantum computing is based on quantum theory on the works of Max Planck, and the quant are little crazy pieces Joe small, the smallest we can investigate right now. And I do believe you can only see those pieces, when you smash atoms, when you have very extremely fine instruments, only then it is even possible to investigate them, and that is basically the level when the the the laws of physics that govern our world are actually breaking down as I understand. They have a randomness to them, and that always reminds me of Heisenberg in Breaking Bad. And also, I do remember, Quants, they do have some of them have spin and taste and something like that. Can you give us a very, very dumbed down introduction into quantum computing. And then after we've done that, we'll talk about quantum computing with light. Okay?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:11:36]:
Sounds good. Sounds good. Let's talk about quantum physics for a moment. So there are 2 aspects here. There is what I would call quantum physics 1.0, where we start to look at the behavior of individual atoms and or individual particles of light. And this kind of physics actually underlies a lot of the technology that we use today. So Mhmm. The laser in the supermarket or the silicon chip in the computer that you and I are using Mhmm.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:12:07]:
These all use quantum effects already. But here we are just using the fact that quantum states can be in superposition, which is just a big word for saying that it can be in the state 0, in the state 1 at the same time, unlike a classical bit, which can either be 0 or 1, but not both at the same time.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:12:34]:
Joe so sorry. 1 question. If you rely on those cubits, it sounds a little bit like it's a bit with Alzheimer. How can you work with that?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:12:49]:
This is actually a very deep question. And working with these fragile almost random bits random cubits is 1 of the big challenges to building a large scale useful quantum computer and the way we work with it is in spirit. It's very similar to how for example the WiFi that that we use the WiFi connections that we use, can still work despite there being some interference along the way. The answer is called error correction. So you use many, many quantum bits to act together as a single but very reliable logical cubit. And this logical cubit is basically what 1 would use for useful quantum computing.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:13:37]:
Mhmm. And still there are many quantum, do I have to say, quantum quantum pieces there working together as a cubit. They're still faster and smaller than a normal bid would be.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:13:56]:
Yeah. So a single logical cubit could comprise somewhere between 101,000 physical pieces, physical cubits.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:14:07]:
And so
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:14:07]:
there's a big overhead here. And nevertheless there are some problems. For example, if you want to study a molecule or study a material or break encryption, for example, there are many problems where quantum computers can do things which classical computers just cannot do. Mhmm. And this is why there is great promise in a new way of computing basically with logical cubits. Mhmm.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:14:37]:
And what, for example, would they be able to do?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:14:43]:
The first applications of quantum computing will be in simulations of materials and molecules. But what does that mean? If we want to study the properties of a drug on a computer before we ever start to make it in the lab, this is something a quantum computer can help with. If you want to come up with a new kind of a material for an electric vehicle battery, this is something which can be done in simulations on a quantum computer much much faster than what a classical computer could do, even a supercomputer. So these are the first applications, but only when we actually start to build truly useful quantum computers will the next set of applications get unlocked.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:15:27]:
Mhmm. I see. So we're now a little bit in quantum computing. And now can you tell us a little bit about the world of quantum computing and what your company, UC Design that it cofounded is actually doing. So we're now drilling down to the core of the matter here. Right.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:15:52]:
Joe as I mentioned, to make a useful quantum computer, you need to put many physical cubits together into a logical cubit. But this requires really sophisticated designs. There are an infinite number of ways of putting qubits together, of controlling them with, for example, microwave pulses or actually looking at the cubits and using that information to figure out where an error happened. So all of these designs together, this is called an architecture. And there are many hardware manufacturers in the world right now who are working on their first architectures for useful quantum computing, on their first demonstrations of useful quantum computing. This is the endeavor that we at QC Design support. So we provide very powerful design software. You can think of this design software as, for example, AutoCAD.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:17:00]:
Or if you come from the semicon the semiconductor industry, then you can think about design software, similar to what is provided by Cadence and Synopsys and Ansys. But this design software gives our customers superpowers. So it's researchers and architects within quantum hardware manufacturers that use our software to come up with the most efficient ways of building useful quantum computers.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:17:26]:
I see. Joe, to put it in very, very simple terms to kind of the computer assisted design that architectures would have for their houses, but you are this piece of software for quantum computing. Absolutely. I think now a lot of people understood here. We skipped over a few pieces here and but I would in the preparation, we had a lot of text here, and we went over some of them. But, going a little bit back, to Qubit and quantum computing, According to your own website, you participated in a world record, world record tomography of a 14 Qubit computer. Did he end up in the Guinness Book World of Records with that 1?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:18:21]:
Unfortunately, not. It's not yet a category, but maybe 1 day it'll be. I have to say this was really a part of a big team effort and there were many, many people who were working much harder on this goal than I was. But, it was a very interesting experiment which we performed with collaborators in Innsbruck and along with basically my research group where where I was working at, we had come up with a way to solve an interesting and important problem in quantum computing. So as I mentioned, quantum computing can do things which classical computers just cannot do, which is great, but it also poses some challenges along with it. And the challenge is that it's really hard to figure out whether the quantum computer is doing the right thing. And
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:19:08]:
It sounds like AI.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:19:11]:
Yes. Perhaps even worse. Who knows? Okay. And tomography here just means that given a quantum computer, can you do something to it to figure out what actually it is doing? And, this was a very efficient algorithm developed in the research group where I was working. And we worked with 1 of the top research groups making these quantum computers to realize this tomography algorithm. And, yeah, it was, a very positive result that the quantum computer was doing more or less what we thought it should be doing. And, this was on a 14 qubit quantum computer back then. I do think this was 2019 or Joe.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:19:51]:
And then since then, the field has moved on. We have way more qubits out there in the wild today and, many more powerful quantum computers.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:20:01]:
Mhmm. And going a little bit back on what you and QC Design are doing, how did you actually, start this idea? Because you've been working with quantum computers in the past. Yes, of course. This question is still open how quantum computing would light would work that we need to answer to our audience. But first, can you take us through the steps that made you with the cofounders start QC Design?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:20:35]:
Absolutely. The founding story of QC Design is that we really wanted to push the envelope with what 1 can do in terms of useful quantum computing. And this is something which we are very proud of right now that our software helps every quantum hardware manufacturer on the planet, potentially, to come up with the best designs, and basically be able to build useful quantum computers 2, 3, 4, 5 years faster than without our software. So I think that's the big vision. And I'm really very happy with the team that we've been fortunate to be able to put together for the founding and as well as for the core team, here in and around Pullum. Joe the type of software that we build, this Mhmm. Computer aided design for, quantum computers, this type of software needs 3 kinds of expertise. And 1 is this expertise in error correction.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:21:43]:
So how do you make a perfect near perfect logical qubit from many physical qubits? It needs expertise in hardware. So what are all the nasty things happening to these tiny particles of light or tiny atoms? And you need basically 1 software. How can 1 harness the properties of this hardware using software? Joe in the team, we've been able to, from the very early days, have this combination of expertise. And we started to build this software and realized that it's something which many many hardware manufacturers care very deeply about. And, so we really went on in on providing this software to so many of these hardware manufacturers.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:22:32]:
From my understanding, it's actually essential for the survival of those hardware manufacturers to be able to really do that, to be an early adopter when quantum computing shows up because otherwise they'll be left in the dust. Right?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:22:54]:
100%. I think, quantum computing is a part of the future of computing, a very big part, if not the future of quantum of computing. And, we really need to focus on this task of putting together noisy physical cubits into these near perfect logical cubits, which makes the whole device useful.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:23:17]:
I see. You said you can be helpful to all hardware manufacturers out there. In terms of markets, how many companies were you talking about there?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:23:30]:
In terms of quantum computing manufacturers, there are about 60 or so quantum hardware teams right now that are working on building full quantum computers. But this is the early days. This is basically the transistor era, of quantum computing right now. The moment we switch to the pocket calculator era, basically have useful quantum computers that solve 1 commercially valuable problem, then there will be many more companies coming up. I expect that in the next 5 to 10 years this number will go from 60 to way more than a 100, and including potentially very big companies that are solving very important problems for massive industries.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:24:15]:
Mhmm. What comes to mind are, the usual hardware producers of, the pieces that I have here in my new computer. How many clients are already using your software?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:24:30]:
So we know that our software is being used in a handful of hardware companies right now, with, let's say, half a dozen or so companies are using it. And this number is something that we're working hard on improving in the coming days. So we're still a very young StartupRadio, started about 2 years or so ago and converted our first customers recently and really now working hard on finding, more and more utility for the software, more and more people using the software.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:25:03]:
Mhmm. It it do I understand it right That right now, talking about old computers here, that right now teams who are trying to figure out how a quantum computing CPU could work are now using this. And over time could your software also be used for the companies producing the hard drives, the graphics cards, and so on and so forth, whatever is needed in those future configurations of quantum computers?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:25:40]:
100%. That's really the vision. So we wanna be able to help our customers, these hardware manufacturers Joe from end to end. Basically, before having to step foot inside the lab, can you design all parts of the quantum computer? Right now, it is unclear what these different parts are. It's still an open research problem. So we have, mostly the processor part of it where there's a lot of iteration going on. But over time, there will also be the memory part of it or the part of it which, would connect with other quantum computers and do all of this in a is in in an error corrected manner. And we hope that 1 day our customers can use our software to design all of this.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:26:26]:
Mhmm. I see. And 1 question, about as you said, it's it's not yet clear, but 1 question about, interoperability of those systems. Do you believe if there is at 1 point, economically viable CPU, a commercially viable CPU built by a quantum computer company. Do you believe it would be simply able to be plugged in existing hardware abstracting from the fact that you would need to completely rewrite all the software on it.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:27:19]:
In order for quantum computing to succeed, this is the only way. We want to have a world where billions of people can directly program a quantum chip like they can a classical chip. And I don't know, maybe 5 to 10 years down the line, do this programming without having to learn a programming language but directly through voice and, via AI tools. This is the world that should be. I also think that there are many smart people working very hard on this. There are several top companies, many StartupRadio, many, bigger companies, all working on making this happen. How do we make sure that a smart programmer who can code for a CPU today or for a classical semiconductor chip today can also learn very quickly how to code for a quantum computer and basically make these, make this power of quantum computing available to everyone. It won't be the beast if it's all perfect.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:28:41]:
Right?
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:29:15]:
Awesome. Joe, now, we are back as in Now we're back. Nothing would have happened. It was Don't know. Don't know. But we're still figuring it out like quantum computing. Okay. Like quantum computing.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:29:40]:
Let's keep going. And we've been talking now a lot about your company and quantum computing, which actually is, I would say, a deep, if not deep, deep tech startup here. Do you
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:29:56]:
think it's possible to build something like this really lean? 100%. This is something we care a lot about. Traditionally, people think of lean StartupRadio being kind of opposite to deep tech startups. So what's a lean startup? This is the standard playbook for, for example, software startups to succeed. You build a product, put it in the hands of the customers early on even if it embarrasses you. You learn from this and then build again. So the build measure iteration loop is at the core of a lean startup. And deep tech startups, to put quite simply, they are taking ideas that existed customers.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:30:40]:
And I think that these 2 ideas are actually much more compatible than we've thought so far. Why? Firstly, because most of the people working in deep tech startups, especially the core team, the first 10, 20 people, they often come from science and engineering and, are so used to the scientific method where you make a hypothesis, you go to the lab, test the hypothesis, come back, change the hypothesis if the experiment was not successful. And I think a lean startup is nothing but applying the scientific methods to building a great company. Joe, once this kind of mindset is established in a deep tech startup, then I think, it's very easy to have everyone on the same page about building something lean. I can say that for us, this is an experiment that we've been working towards. We don't know whether it's successful yet. Only time will tell. But, we focused from the very early days in building things on a matter in a matter of days.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:31:45]:
Even if it was slow, even if it was, 90% of the way there, not 100% perfect as a product, and showing it to customers. And our customers being architects and researchers in quantum hardware manufacturers, we were so lucky that everyone was extremely open about sharing what are their pain points and what is it that is really exciting about such software. So, for example, a visualization tool that we hacked together over 1 weekend to scratch our own itch end up being 1 of the more interesting things for customers. And, this this way of working has, solved 1 very important problem for us. So as a company, as a deep tech startup, we are taking ideas at the frontier of human knowledge in error correction, in quantum computing. We are taking that, whether it's research that we do or research that other people do, and taking that and putting it into production level software. Now I can as you can imagine, the frontier of human knowledge is vast. And which of the ideas, which of the many cool and fascinating ideas are also useful to our customers.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:33:00]:
This only a lean way of working can help. So everyone in the team is really excited that now we know for sure that what we are building is actually being used by somebody to build a useful quantum computer, which will push humanity forward. So I think that the lean way of working is not only, it's definitely not antithetical to building a deep tech startup, but can actually help, move a deep tech startup forward. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:33:31]:
You've been talking about building startups on the edge of human knowledge and technology. You've been in India, in Canada, and here in Germany in academics, in different levels even as a postdoc here in Germany. I was wondering, do you believe that Germany could do more to enable those spin offs out of universities, research institutions, and so on and so forth?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:34:08]:
This is something I care very deeply about. I think that deep tech Startupradio truly have the potential to push humanity forward. So whether it was the transistor or the microchip or the Internet, every time somebody took something from a lab and put it into the hands of customers, a lot of things changed. Humanity really advanced. Deep tech startups do precisely that. And so far, many of the deep tech startups that have come up have been very concentrated, for example, in the Silicon Valley or a few other hubs across the world. And I think this is really a pity because talent is everywhere and to some extent money is liquid. It can be everywhere.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:34:58]:
So it's not the lack of talent or money that is holding back Germany, Europe, or many other parts of the world from basically having more and more deep tech Startupradio. It's something else. I feel like there is a lot of fiction in the process of taking something from the lab and actually putting it into a company environment and trying to take it to customers. And I feel like friction, if removed, can actually 10 x the amount of deep tech startups coming from coming from research and academic hubs in Germany and in the rest of the world. So friction can be in the form of, you know, it's really tough for a PhD student to spend 6 to 12 months just working on some crazy idea and a program, for example, where there is a little bit of money and a lot of freedom that's given to young researchers to just explore a Startupradio. Something like this could really reduce friction. Friction also comes in the form of kind of tech transfer agreements between universities and StartupRadio. And I have to say that the US does this much better than the rest of the world.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:36:12]:
So a simple agreement where the university takes a part of the company so that they are also aligned with the success of the company and in return basically offers their full support in terms of intellectual property. I think a much simpler agreement like this rather than, for example, 3 different ways in which royalties are charged or things like that, this would also reduce the friction a lot and many more people don't have to wait months, but instead in a matter of days or weeks can basically spin out of a university. I have to say we are very fortunate to be working with the University of Un, but I think this is not, the usual, experience that people have. And it's really it take it can take months for IP agreements to be set up with universities. And I think the final part of this friction is coming from the lack of role models. So for me, this was Martin Clineau. Seeing this world class researcher who is 1 of the top cited researchers in quantum information, who has mentored hundreds of PhD students, many of whom are professors or leaders in the industry now. But also Martin wanted to do more than just academia.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:37:22]:
And Martin set up Envision Imaging, which is now a quantum com quantum imaging StartupRadio that's 8 years, and the product is on the market. So this was really inspiring. So the fact that, you know, it's possible to do it, that also cuts friction. So I feel like we should talk more about people trying to build deep tech startups or or especially deep tech startups that are succeeding. So such small things reduce the friction, make it possible for deep tech startups to basically come out of everywhere wherever there's talent and unlock this latent potential that's hiding in the universities right now?
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:38:01]:
Aman. Amazing. Actually, 1 of the many things we try to do here is really to show the movers and checkers of the future, those people who found path breaking Startupradio, and that that's at the core of stutterbrite.l. That's why we'd also love to show, more spin offs here. Thank you. Let's go. We've already drifted into our outlook, but, I will be curious about a few questions and then we can close this interview. How do you envision quantum computing revolutionizing industries and what real world problems do you believe we could solve with quantum computing that we cannot do now? You've been talking about, drug discovery and, I've talked to a lot of people, around here and most of them tell me with a classical computer right now, NDAI, they laid the groundwork for the very fast development of the COVID vaccines here.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:39:10]:
Mhmm. These are other problems down the road that we could also solve with introducing, like, real world problems with the introduction of the more capable quantum computing?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:39:24]:
Absolutely. So you already mentioned designing drugs, designing new vaccines. I think these will be the first problems where actually we'll see a real impact. But also starting to design materials. 1 important material which we don't think enough about is fertilizers, and fertilizer production consumes about 3% of all energy worldwide. But if you see how plants do it, it takes a fraction of the energy of how we do it at an industrial scale. So a quantum computer could perhaps help us understand more deeply how plants do it and come up with new ways of making fertilizers that could cut the energy consumption of the fertilizer process by a factor of a 10 or a100. So this is just 1 of the materials.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:40:13]:
Would be cool if quantum computers could help us design materials for carbon capture. Would be amazing if we can have new batteries that are designed by quantum computers. All of these are things which inherently quantum computers are good at because all of these problems involve simulating materials. And it's something which classical computers are not very good at, but quantum computers being good at, being basically quantum can simulate quantum materials very, very well. So that's my hope for what quantum computers help us with.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:40:46]:
Mhmm. Let me should, briefly do a little note here. Madhu, can you cut this
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:40:58]:
out?
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:41:02]:
A lot of talk is right now about AI. There's we've been also talking a lot about the increasing capabilities in quantum computing. Do you have, like, any educate please don't get me wrong. I know forecasts are always difficult, especially concerning the future. But can you do you have a few guesses, a few ideas how the development and capabilities of AI could improve with being on quantum computers and not the usual silicon based computers?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:41:56]:
I think right now, AI is growing very rapidly, and this rapid part is where things get interesting. So the amount of money, time, energy spent training a new model has gone from tens of 1,000,000 to 100 of 1,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 now in a matter of only 2 to 4 years. Mhmm. There is no reason to believe that this acceleration will not continue. So we do expect tens of 1,000,000,000 or so spent training the next models, and this will continue. We can imagine companies like Microsoft and Google and perhaps, other entities spending this kind of money training the new models. But what happens when you go to 100 of 1,000,000,000? This is really now pushing it. A $1,000,000,000,000 model? This is not feasible anymore.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:42:52]:
And there is definitely an upper barrier coming very very fast. So the question is how do we move away from these from how things are done right now, classical computing, to actually come up with new, more intelligent models, we need an alternative. So quantum computing is definitely an alternative which could help. I think this is a very active area of research right now. Many smart people are devoting their time and lives towards understanding how quantum computers could actually help AI or actually vice versa and, have AI help us build better quantum computers.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:43:40]:
I understand. So they they can help each other. I see. So as soon as the first quantum computer starts working, you can build an AI on it that helps you design better quantum computers. So that
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:43:52]:
is That'd be interesting.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:43:53]:
Yeah. That's really interesting. But before we get into that, let us get a tiny bit back to, QCD sign. The usual closing questions, are you looking for capable employees? And if yes, do they need a PhD in quantum theory?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:44:16]:
Building software like we do needs, all the smart and kind people that we can have join us on this mission. So we are definitely looking for people. We're looking for people who can write pleasing fast code. Mhmm. We're looking for people who understand very deeply how qubits work and how they talk to each other. So I guess those are much more research kind of positions. I guess even a smart, and ambitious master's student can definitely get to this frontier in a matter of months. I don't think a PhD is needed.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:44:49]:
And I also personally feel like, for quantum computing to go from a niche industry where there's a bunch of startups and 2 big companies, building quantum computers to basically it being a worldwide endeavor. We need to be able to make sure that many, many smart people can come together and build useful quantum computers. So, don't let, the lack of a PhD stop you from applying to a quantum computing role. And if you're interested in building software that helps humanity get to useful quantum computing, do reach out to us at, jobs@qc.design is the email ID.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:45:24]:
Mhmm. And, of course, you need to pay those people. Are you open to talk to new investors?
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:45:30]:
Yes. We are right now in the middle of a funding round. This is to take us from first customer traction to a true product market fit in in a lean Startupradio style. We still have a very comfortable runway, so we're not really desperate for money. But we think that there's a massive opportunity and really an undervalued opportunity in making this EDA or electronic design automation like software for quantum computing. So if, if this is something that is interesting to potential deep tech investors or investors in basically b to b software companies, then we'd love to talk. So happy to talk, ish@qc.design is where you can reach out to me.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:46:14]:
And, of course, as always, we link down everything down here in the show notes. So there will be your LinkedIn profile. People can reach out on LinkedIn. We'll add your email in some encrypted kind of way, and you don't get a lot of spam hopefully, or maybe we just stick to the, to the, LinkedIn profile. Ish, it was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much. Congratulations again to you, German Startupboot, newcomer of the year 2024, and best of luck in building QCD sign further.
Ish Dhand | CEO and Co-Founder QC Design [00:46:46]:
Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:46:48]:
The pleasure was all mine. Have a good day. Bye bye. Bye.
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