This story was migrated from our old blog, originally published on January 26th, 2021.
New Blog
This blog post first appeared first on old medium publication (https://medium.com/startuprad-io), and was moved to this blog with the relaunch of our website in summer 2024.
Update from December 2021
Clark is now officially a unicorn. You can learn more here:
[A Ping-Pong table, a PlayStation or a table football] don’t help that much if the [corporate culture] is broken.Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
In this interview, we are talking to a previous guest. Christopher Oster is the CEO and co-founder of Frankfurt-based insurtech clark. In the past, we talk to him about the appearance of Clark on Bloomberg’s list of startups to watch, back in 2017. Now they raised an 85 m US$ series C venture capital round, with noteworthy investor Tencent from China. We talk to him about the funding, the way to the funding, and their plans.
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Insurance has still not really penetrated by technology … you have unhappy customers … this is a great opportunity for a founder.Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
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In 2015 there was almost no funding for insurtech startups, it all started in 2016Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
The Founder
In this interview, we are talking to Christopher (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-christopher-oster-3158802/) the CEO and co-founder of Frankfurt-based insurtech clark. In the past we talk to him about the appearance of Clark on Bloomberg’s list of startups to watch, back in 2017.
You have a paper folder with your insurance policies, but nobody checks if the insurance policies still matche your life.Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
The Startup
The startup was built by a group of four friends, who to together since they could not find the help they wanted with their insurance needs. The whole founding team is still on board, more than 5 years after the company was set up Crunchbase (https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/clark-2), company website (https://www.clark.de/).
An average German has six insurance policies with 4 different insurance carriers.Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
The Interview from 2017
For our series a, we talked to 300 VCs or so. There was a lot of uncertainty and many other companies started as well.Christopher Oster, CEO and Co-Founder Clark
The Video Interview is set to go live on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 17.00 CET (Frankfurt/Paris/Milano)
The Audio Interview
The audio interview will go live at the same time. Find it on your prefered podcasting app or tool.
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Transcript
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:00:20]:
Hello, and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from StartupRadio dot Joe, your start up podcast on YouTube blog from Germany. Welcome, Christopher, this time back here at steloperator. Joe. How are you doing?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:00:34]:
Very good. Thank you for having me.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:00:37]:
It's completely my pleasure. 1, we've been still an audio only podcast here in Frankfurt, we've been talking and I just looked it up. It was published in March 2017, almost 4 years ago. It feels like a lot has happened since. Right?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:00:59]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Can't imagine, like, 2017, Clark was a different company.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:01:06]:
We we'll talk a little bit about your journey here. Let us first, get our enabler mentioned here. This interview is brought to you by invest in hessen.com, which provides you detailed information on the state of hessen as a business location and is specifically aimed at investors. As I was, going through our past interview, of course, if you go down here in the show notes, there is a blog post. And on the blog post, there's also this interview as an audio only podcast, as well as our past interview as an audio only podcast. And at the time, we were, talking because you've been mentioned as one of the very few German startups in the Bloomberg list of startups you most likely never heard of, but actually should have an eye on. I I remember a few a few interactions from that, but let us get back to this, later. I was when I was listening to this, I was wondering, we we never talked how you guys, you and your cofounders actually met.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:02:15]:
Yes. That was in in 2015. And let me actually maybe start by saying that the the team is still complete. So it's still the same people that are behind Clark, basically, since day 1. It was in 2015. You know, I think it started a bit with a pain point that I had myself in insurance because, you know, I was between jobs. I had a lot of time, and I want to get my insurance stuff done. Like, it was on my to do a long, long time.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:02:44]:
So I thought, okay, now is a good moment to do that. And I couldn't find a tool and or Joe program or nothing where I could get this done. I just didn't find the help that I wanted to have. And, I thought, okay. I have to do something about this myself. And then we actually met through, you know, the network, friends of friends, and it all came together, basically. I think in summer 2015, the team was fully on board. And, it's been a fantastic ride since because, like, what we had as an initial hypothesis and what we wanted to achieve still holds true today.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:03:20]:
And it's a you know, it's not a it's not a quick shot. Like, you can't turn the insurance industry upside down in in a super short amount of time. It's a map. And, yeah, we've been we found each other 2015, like, shared the the pain point or figured out that we shared the pain point, and, everyone in the team was able to contribute something different. Alright. Marco has a background in insurance. Jeff has a background in technology, Chris in marketing, me in start up and digital businesses. So it all came together there.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:03:53]:
And, Marco, he's also a podcaster here in Frankfurt as well, which is pretty interesting. I have to talk to him. Joe the the founding team is actually, still there. And, how how did you guys open? Talk Yeah. Insurance is so boring. Yeah. Insurance is so boring. Let's do something about it.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:04:15]:
No. No. No. No. That that that wasn't like you know, actually, like, I I also it took time for me to fall in love with the insurance market. Right? Like, it's not that you it's nothing that you you start thinking about, and then you immediately say, oh, wow. There's something I have to do. But, like, the more I got engaged with what's going on in insurance, again, in 2015, the more clear it became to me that this is going to be a fun and a long term thing that I would love to do because the pain point for consumers is immense.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:04:53]:
The business opportunity is extremely large. It's relevant for everyone. Everyone has an insurance product. Everything that you see around you right now probably is somehow insured, like, whether it's the house, where you sit in, or whether the, like, what's inside the house, the goods in the house, your car when you drive to work. Everything has a relation to insurance. Right? Of course, you have health insurance as well and maybe even retirement savings. But all of this belongs in this field. So it's a very, very large playing field, and actually, it hasn't been penetrated by technology that much still today.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:05:31]:
Joe you have a massive market, you have unhappy customers, and a low degree of digitization. So for a founder, that's a fantastic opportunity. And, yeah, for that alone for that reason, you have to like it.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:05:45]:
Yeah. I see. See. See. See. Usually, the the founding stories at late, at least recently, involve some wine, but, that apparently wasn't the case with you guys. Can you, because you are right now, really popular in Germany. Because I see you run, TV ads on national TV and all stuff like that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:06:10]:
And I'm curious, can you explain to somebody who maybe has never had any interactions with Germany, who doesn't even understand what Volkaskomanallit is. Can you explain him a little bit the the the German law of of insurance? And, of course, I'll explain later what Folkasco means.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:06:38]:
Of course. Of course. So, like like, take an average German. Average German has 6 insurance policies, and those 6 insurance policies are typically with 4 different insurance carriers. What everyone has is a a paper folder at home where you have all the documents stored that you get from these insurance companies. Typically, this has piled up over the years because you bought these insurance products years ago. You have the paper folder in your in your sideboard, but you don't really know what's going on. So you don't know, like, what you actually get for your payments every year and whether this is still adequate.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:07:18]:
And your life situation has changed. You may be married. You have maybe kids now. You moved houses. You moved jobs, whatever. And you don't know if what you have in this paper folder is still matching your life situation. And, there is a gap in the market because what people typically do is they sell you a product, but then afterwards, there is silence. And what we do is, different.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:07:40]:
1st, we digitize this folder. So instead of having this paper folder in your sideboard, you have all of the data in an application. Right? That's the idea. So you always have all your insurance data, contract numbers, durations, what's covered, what not, and so on and so on. And then what we do is we, of course, help you stay up to date. So it's like an ongoing management of these, and we'll tell you every year, look, we just checked your car insurance, or we just checked your household insurance. And you know what? You're still doing great. You don't need to change it.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:08:09]:
You don't need to think about switching it this year. Just pay the premium and you're good for another year. And we'll do that every year and we'll, of course, stay ahead of what's changing in your life and then also tell you if something is changing, what it means for your insurance, and if you need to adjust your insurance. It's meant like one place where you as consumer can do everything that has to do with your insurance. If you don't understand anything or if you have a question, like sometimes these cases, right? You sit in your garden and you see this big massive tree that could fall on your neighbor's house. What actually happens if a tree falls on your neighbor's house? Who's paying that? Or your kids play ball in the garden and the ball is falling on the street. The car has to, you know, like Joe exactly that word and hits another car. Whose insurance is paying that? Is it your insurance because it's your kids with a ball? Is it the car insurance of the driver? Who's in charge of it? Joe if you have these questions, there's an answer to all of that too.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:09:12]:
So we can give you peace of mind. If you're not sure and you have this case and you just wanna know what's going on and what would be if, then you can also ask us these type of things. And we have experts can look into contract and look this up.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:09:26]:
And for Casko insurance, as you said, there there, there is, Germans love the car insurance, and there's like three levels of them. And the highest level, like, almost very free level is. So meaning Menninger means peace of mind. Everything is covered. Everything's taken care of. Now that we understand that you guys are basically getting the digital folder on your cell phone, for all your insurance policies, Let us get a little bit into the money, into venture capital funding. By the way, I'm wondering when you started in 2015, I know that that, Fintech at this time was was a thing with starting. I did my first Fintech review 2014.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:10:21]:
But was Intratec already a thing? And how did you approach investors for, let's say, seed series a or stuff like this? Did you say, we have Fintech in insurance, and this will be awesome, and it's more sexy than it sounds?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:10:37]:
No. It's actually it's a very good point you're you're raising there because, it it was a problem. Like, I think, 2015 I don't know if the term insurtech existed at the time or if it was coined shortly after, But it was not so clear, and the problem was that the venture capital industry had no experience within Shoretec. Joe, they had hardly any experts that knew the market. Joe, we needed to explain what a broker because from a regulatory standpoint, we are an insurance broker. We'd really had to explain first what this actually is. That was actually hard for them to get comfortable on because they had no experts on the market, no past investments in this field that were a success. So it was for them a lot of pioneering work, and many at the time didn't dare to make an investment in this field because they just couldn't assess what business model may be successful and which one not.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:11:34]:
And that means for us, 2015, there was no funding at all, so it was, like, really marginal. And 2016, we then did our 1st real financing round. 2015, of course, we also had supporters. We had some fantastic business angels that were more experts in the field, so they could basically assess if there is an opportunity or not. But it all started often only in 2016. Actually, if you look at customer numbers and revenue numbers of Clark, especially customers, I think end of 2015, I knew every single customer's name because it was family and friends and such. Joe I don't know if we had customer by the end of 2015. And then only 16, it started a bit with, money to invest in growth.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:12:26]:
When did you go for your series e series a round? And, how how did you approach it? How would you describe Clark at this point? Was it that you still knew all the customers?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:12:39]:
Yeah. The the it was. It was. So and that's why maybe it also took a bit longer. So I think the first, the series a, that took us a year or so. That was a very, very long process. Let's say we started summer 2015 when the first website went live, and we then closed that summer a year later. And in the meantime, we talked to probably 300 VCs or so.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:13:03]:
So it was a very, very tough process. But again, it was this education piece. It was, of course, there was a lot of uncertainties also around the company and where the business is going. Joe it's understandable that this took longer. Plus, it was extremely competitive. So when we started 2015, I think there were like 15 companies that did exactly the same. Joe on top of all the uncertainty around, oh, is there actually an opportunity or not? And what is this new thing in Shurtech? There were, like, many companies starting in the field, and it was really hard to to separate them.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:13:40]:
Let let me just digest this a little bit. Venture capital in Germany called Hisekorpital, so risk capital weren't, aware that, risk averse and didn't want to venture out. Okay. I get that.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:13:58]:
Actually like that you that you say that that it's venture capital and, like, in Germany, it's risk capital because they see the risk first of losing the money and not the opportunity of, like, increasing it significantly. Yeah. Could could say that. It's funny.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:14:11]:
Forecast Joe mentality. Uh-huh. Is is your current, funding round that we're talking about? By the way, congratulations to €69,000,000 from Tencent from China. Is this your series b round?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:14:28]:
Series c.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:14:29]:
Series c. And, can we talk a little bit first about your series b round? What did you guys do there? But I I really assume at this time, you just didn't know you, all your clients by name. Right?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:14:44]:
No. No. No. No. That the the company clearly has changed a lot since, since I think the series a was the starting point. So, like, there was summer 2016. And then we had, like, our talk in 2017, and it was already when Bloomberg was aware of us. So something must have happened already between summer 2016 and March 2017.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:15:12]:
And in 2018, we did, the Series b, which basically now lasted until until 2020. And, the amounts, like, I mean, they they basically doubled every round, more or less. So with the funds of the series b beside Germany, we then also started launching the Austrian market, as our first international market. And now with the funds of Series c, we will we'll actually be be staying in in the vicinity of Germany and Austria to concentrate our growth in those two markets. Able to, you know, scale the marketing channels, try new marketing channels, improve the product, improve the services around the product. All of this is on our list.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:15:57]:
That that's already a question I would have because, 69,000,000 is quite a lot of money. And I assume you already have all the, all the, football tables and all the play stations you would need in your company. Right?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:16:13]:
We we have everything that is needed, but no one is in the office using it. Right?
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:16:18]:
Oh, yeah. We we're still recording this in times of corona. I I would be interested, how did you now approach series c? How did the contact happen with Tencent? How how did you get the connection? Because in the past, we talked to a robot advisor who has an investor from Russia, and, the Russian investor just reached out by email. Did did the same thing happen to you?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:16:47]:
No. No. No. It was, and actually, like, speaking also a bit about corona here, we wanted to do the fundraise a little bit earlier. So it was our plan to finish the fundraise in in August, September 2020. That was the original plan. But for that, we would have to, you know, prepare the materials, go out and pitch, in March April 2020. And that was in the middle of the first lockdown.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:17:17]:
The stock market that has like, share price decreased by 40%. The world was about to go down. So it was, like, hard in those times to to go out with a pitch deck and say, hey. We have this great InsurTech. Don't you wanna invest in my InsurTech? So we held it back for another half year. It didn't go out in March 2020, but only in August or September 2020 to basically now finish to fundraise 2,021. So that had an impact on the on the timing. And, fortunately, that's also why it maybe went so quick.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:17:51]:
We have had, like, a long list of, venture capital companies, interested firms, including Tencent, of course, also on the list and that we have had contacts with already, that we have created over the last, like, funding rounds and over the last years. Joe we had those contacts already. And then, yeah, again, in August last year, we basically started reaching out with a new set of information about the company. Yeah. And we're super happy and excited with how the process went, and also with the final result. It's a it's a fantastic partner. Many insights that we can get that we probably wouldn't have never gotten otherwise.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:18:32]:
Yeah. I I could see in the future you're trying your luck in China. But talking about China, I've been living there, and, I experienced, like, really firsthand all the cultural differences. Did you experience some of them, and did you learn never ever to offer a Chinese surprise of 250?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:18:53]:
No. I don't know. You need to tell me about that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:18:56]:
Well, the story goes there was an emperor who sent out 4 mandarins for, like, high officials, and he gave everyone 250 gold coins. Sorry for all the Chinese listeners if I screw this up. Remember, I'm just I'm just a foreigner. And, basically, one of the, for the eternal life, the the Mandarin should know, should search for the eternal life. Of course, they didn't find anything, so they came back and handed the emperor back the money. But one was, was thinking the emperor was stupid and wouldn't realize to, that he did not give back to 250 gold coins. And so if you offer Chinese 250, you actually tell him you're stupid.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:19:40]:
Okay. No. Not at all. Like, on the contrary, we're super impressed by the team. And I think it was, you know, like, you when you have multiple opportunities, where to get basically the liquidity from, or the dollars from, then you you choose by the by the people that you have in front of you. Right? And if they can bring something to the table, and, we found this absolutely remarkable and impressive. And I think it was a decision more for the team, than for the for the money.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:20:14]:
Would you give a mental would you like to give a mental high five to the people who impressed you most at Tencent?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:20:21]:
Of course. Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. No. No. We, like, again, it's been it's been, like and I also don't wanna give the impression that this was a surprise, because we have again, we've met the the people beforehand, and, we've, like, no. Not done business with them beforehand, but, like, we've had many occasions where we met before and but they also got to know the company, asked the right questions about the company, followed the company, progress.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:20:48]:
And, yeah, we we just felt that they're spot on in the views of, you know, where this business can go and, very consistent with what we think about the market.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:20:58]:
I see. See. You you just said, approximately 5 years ago, you set up the company. Now you're in your 3rd investment round. You raised, I think, somewhere in the area of €150,000,000?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:21:13]:
A little bit less, but, like a it's a 100, 120, like along those lines.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:21:18]:
Uh-huh. And, I would be interested. You you said your founding team is still there. How did you maintain a a kind of company culture, and how would you describe it? And do you have any advice for an entrepreneur out there with a fast scaling company, on, like, your best tip or tips, for, keeping corporate culture except for, buying a table tennis, a table football, and PlayStation?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:21:55]:
Yeah. Because these are typically the things that actually don't help that much, right? If something is broken or not working, they don't fix it. I think what is super important is that you have people in the team that bring different things to the table. Right? And, like like, imagine you you want to found a rock band, and you have 3 people that can play the guitar, but you have no drummer and no singer. That would be like, that can't go right. Joe I think you have to, like, think about what kind of music do I wanna play in the long run. What is my album going to look like in 3 years or 5 years? What kind of songs do I want to have on this album? What should it sound like, and what kind of people actually what kind of roles are actually important to create that? And for us, there was technology, marketing, operations, and digital business. So everyone had a clear role.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:22:51]:
Right? And, like, everyone also has a, like, a clear, clear function and accountability in the company and an area that he or she is pushing forward. And I think that was super important for us because don't have, one who's working a bit in the area of the other. Everyone is basically we're all working towards the same thing, but also everyone has I think So I think that's actually something that, like, young founders should do at the very beginning. Like, if your if your dream comes true and the company is exactly where you wanted to be in 4 years, what does then the architect look like And make those top 4 people or 3 people or whatever the top 3 are, make those your founders.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:23:46]:
Sorry for all the technical difficulties. We can influence here a lot, but unfortunately, not the Internet speed, and that is what what's bothering us. You may have seen that Christopher's picture, picture jumped in in resolution. And the very simple reason is we get delivered different resolutions and our, tool just chose it all the same at the same resolution. Get getting getting to, getting to Frankfurt again, you guys actually relocated from Berlin to Frankfurt. How long ago was it and why?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:24:22]:
Yeah. There was a, that was 2,000 5th. It was never planned differently. So him, I mean, Stefan was was elsewhere. He was in London. So for him, it didn't matter. But, Chris at the time. So it was clear that the company will be, founded in Frankfurt.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:24:45]:
The move that was actually, I wouldn't even say, at the time in Frankfurt, there wasn't proper offices. It was just easier for the first 2 or 3 months to do things in Berlin. So we in Berlin, we have also had our first partner, Findeep, our first investor, basically. But then he provided office spaces and, like, all the surrounding work, basically. So, that's why we had worked the first, but actually, it was always clear that the company will be. So, it wasn't really a move because we never had a fixed office in Berlin, always meant to be in Frankfurt. And I think while the website that launched in June 2015, we actually then, you know, moved permanently in September 2015. So that was the reason.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:25:40]:
And why we're in Frankfurt, it's yeah. Again, as I go and myself, we were living at the time here. But, it was a conscious choice. Like, we were not if at a time we find enough tech talent in Frankfurt. So what we actually did is we, we posted tons for Stealth Fintech in Frankfurt. And, kind of looked at what kind of CVs are coming in. Is it the the right people that we want on board? And is it the the, of staff that makes the need for our company. And only when all of this was answered positively, we actually that way.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:26:20]:
Okay. Where do you see the strength of the location? You said you you were not sure about the tech talent. Did this already, you already got this settled?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:26:30]:
Like, I think that actually worked out, very nicely from the from the there is less people in in Frankfurt that want to work in tech sector, compared to them. But there's also less tech companies that you can work for. Right? So and is on a lower level. But actually, for a company, it's probably easier to find the right, staff in Frankfurt to come except for some specific roles. Right? Because the various like, like, for example, our entire marketing team is now sitting in Berlin. Right? So we have now a proper office in Berlin, and our entire marketing team also a consulting team in Berlin. We have, with our CPO sitting in Berlin. So So that's actually first people that are also in the, compared to Frankfurt.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:27:22]:
And I mean, at the moment, it doesn't really matter anyways where the offices are. Right?
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:27:29]:
I see. I see. Really sorry again for the technical difficulties. People just see you moving like a stop motion picture, and that's unfortunately due to the internet speed. Just a fine question, closing question. What do you see the most potential for Clark, let's say in the next 2 to 5 years?
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:27:50]:
Yes. Multiple thing. You you know, we now have, 300,000 customers in good. Like, you know, a Novos Bank has maybe 500,000, so you're on a on a nice track there catching up the with the smaller direct banks. But the market for insurance is so big. Like, you have 60,000,000 people in Germany that have insurance, and for them, Clark is relevant. So we just have, like, a marginal market share. So what we actually will do in the next 3, 4, 5 years is we'll massively concentrate growth in Germany and Austria.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:28:31]:
And maybe at in the 3 or 5 year horizon, 2, 3 other European markets. You'll not see us going to, like, South America and opening tons of or North America and all over. Over. Rather concentrate our efforts on on fewer markets, and to make sure that we build through, like, a proper size in those countries.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:28:58]:
Well, everything I want to know. Thank you very much. Everybody would like to learn more. They can go down here in the show notes. There is a link to your LinkedIn profile as well as of course to the company website and our interview from 2017. Just to say thank you again. It was such a pleasure having you here even though we had a few technical difficulties, but mostly limited to the, to the video. Really sorry about that.
Jörn "Joe" Menninger [00:29:27]:
Thank you very much for being my guest.
Christopher Oster | CEO Clark.de [00:29:29]:
Thank you so much.
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