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The Proptech HAUSGOLD matches real estate brokers with buyers and sellers
The impact one can have on a smaller company is exponentially larger than just being a small fish in a large pondAndreas Wellinger, CFO HAUSGOLD
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Yes, we achieved break even in 2020. Currently we are not running at break even, but at a low cash burn.Andreas Wellinger, CFO HAUSGOLD
The CFO
In this interview, we talk to Andreas Wellinger (https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreas-wellinger-2735b1191/), the CFO of Hamburg-based proptech platform HAUSGOLD (https://www.hausgold.de/). Andreas is originally from Vienna. He has been hired as CFO, having a background in consulting and investment banking. During his time in consulting, he spent more than two years in Brazil and half a year in South Africa. In investment banking, he was covering financial institutions in IBD.
This has been a thesis for two decades, that the existence of real estate portals will result in the complete irrelevance of the job of a real estate agent. … a real estate agent can bring a certain value add to the transaction, that sellers do appreciate.Andreas Wellinger, CFO HAUSGOLD
The Startup
Hausgold (https://www.hausgold.de/) is a platform to match potential buyers and sellers of real estate with the right broker.
According to their 2021 press release, the startup broke even in 2020, despite corona. Their revenue grew 50% and they had real estate transactions on their platform worth 5 bn Euros (5.9 bn US$). As stated in January 2021, they are looking to double revenue this year and increase the transaction volume to 13 bn Euros (15,4 bn US$). https://www.presseportal.de/pm/117034/4809967
The startup got press coverage with the investments of Rocket Internet in 2016 and Deutsche Bank in 2019. The investment of Deutsche Bank was one of their first public startup investments.
What we already see in our data is a certain trend of de-urbanization.Andreas Wellinger, CFO HAUSGOLD
Venture Capital Funding
At the time of the interview, HAUSGOLD was not actively seeking external investors.
The Video Interview is set to go live on Thursday, the 23rd of September 2021, at 17.00 CET
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Automated Transcript
[0:00] Startup read that IO.
[0:09] Your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startups.
[0:14] With News interviews and Live Eventshello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startupradio Deo your startup podcast and you to block from Germany as well as towards first internet radio station dedicated to startups and,companies today I bring you another interview with yet another guest he’s not the co-founder of.
[0:40] The CFO of Hamburg basedhouse called which literally translates to house gold welcome and Trace how you doinghey well thanks for the invitation Joe I’m doing fine how are you I’m doing great thank you people may see when they see here on YouTube short sleeve so this is already recorded in the summer but due to a little backlog of interviews we are only going topublish thisinfo button unless we try to keep it as relevant as possible I’ve been looking a little bit at your CV and a little bit into the handles register which is the publicpublic register of German companies and I’ve seen you entered as CFO.In the company officially in there in the public register in April 20–21.And I’ve seen before that you’ve been an investment banker as well as a strategy consultant can you take us a little bit through the Journey would you did would you learned and how you ended up with companyfounded seven years before as a CFO yeah sure so my pedigree I think is a relatively.Standard or Orthodox pedigree I studied finance and economics at a german-speaking business school in Vienna.
[2:05] I moved immediately after my studies I joined a consulting firm.For which I worked for more than four years that a lot of quantitative analytical work there,in a number of international locations that are spent almost two years in Brazil spent half a year in South Africa had a head of basically a great time.But then I figured I still want to see another sector moved into investment banking.Joint one of the large investment banks in London and covered.This should be financial institutions sector in in Europe out of London and I did that for almost like years.
[2:52] And I did like my job there quite a lot but what I missed was.The entrepreneurial Spirit what I want the job lacked was.The or what I frankly disliked what’s the time like between having an idea and getting everybody on board to actually Implement that idea into reality and that is just something completely different at the place.Worm right now at how school where if me and the founder and CEO Sebastian Wagner when we discuss an idea we can,virtually.Implemented if it’s possible over the next couple of days and basically run tests and and see how the data works out and and this is something.This is something that I find extremely refreshing it’s so basically the impact that.
[3:45] That one can have as a single individual at a small institution that a small sort of it’s just.Exponentially larger than she’s being being a small fish in the pond off a you know Global Investment Bank for instance so so so big this is something that.That motivated me to move out of investment banking and.
[4:07] Little bit curious how he ended up at house called how he decided for this startup I assumed you had a lot of offers at hand and why did he choosethey start up is it because it’s very promising because it hasn’t Innovative technology or because you just got along very well with the CEO.Um frankly you mentioned all the three most relevant aspects so first of all I hit it off with with Sebastian.Very well initially from from the first meeting we had I saw that there’s a,there’s a very good wipe to to have a great working relationship with the founded which is something extremely important.You know when I look at a job per se I look and when I when I try to do that Robert agnostically getting along with the,with the employees and and experiencing a great working atmosphere something extremely important I’ve seen how that.You know investment banks are not necessarily known for for having a great working atmosphere I.
[5:11] They are being judged too harshly the atmosphere can be great there as well that but it’s something obviously motivating especially the start of where.You know in particular moving from an investment Bank you don’t the move isn’t motivated necessarily by.By short-term Financial consideration so that’s something extremely important.
[5:33] But also I always had an affinity for for the real estate sector prison a II did Cover as a banker and as a consultant was actually focused on all moan fintechs financial institutions and shorter Insurance firms Banks.Etc.Which is somewhat adjacent to the real estate sector because because financing is always a very critical element to any real estate or to most real estate transactions.But more importantly as a private investor.I’ve you know I’ve been a very small scale investor in India nice real estate which is where I’m originally from.And so always liked or found the sector interesting and always found the sector extremely.How am I going to put it I always found it.
[6:24] Interesting that the part that a lot of elements of the real estate selling are not haven’t really been disruptedor disruption has started relatively late in the game if you look at at a real estate transaction when it comeswhen you look at the angle and agent selling a real estate a property,to a buyer that has been disrupted a long time ago 25 years ago when big real estate portals like a most Kyle 24 in Germany and and you know equivalents in other countries,have been built that angle of the real estate transaction has been disrupted a long time ago but the angle where a seller actually finds an ancient he wants to work with.And he wants to chew and trust with selling his his or her property.
[7:16] That part of the business hadn’t hadn’t yet been fully disrupted and I think disruption is still relatively early on the game here.And so also I found that it very interesting and then lastly it’s it’s.It’s a I mean how school is a start-up and isn’t a sector where data and big data is extremely important we just to throw in a number here we speak to over a hundred thousand customers each year.
[7:44] And,that gives us a lot of data to learn from and it was always my my aspiration and my and you know what we had agreed on informally thatthat wasn’t simply going to be a CFO who looks at the numbers and basically you know and and is involved in investor dialogues etcetera but that I that I want to be much more than that and actually really drives the business and our decision making,as to where we want to allocate resources where we want to allocate Capital based on numbers and actually and and just help hausgold.Monetize the data that we have in a much more significant fashion before we get into what house concurrently is and what you guys are aspiring to do can you.Just take us unlit Journey because my understanding is you can basically buy and sell legally real estate just through,an internet platform but many people still rely.On human Brokers can you tell us a little bit what segment this is relevant for and you personal opinion why people are still doing it when they could they could do it.
[8:56] All remote yep it’s a very interesting question is is this has been a thesis for the better part of two decades that.That the existence of real estate portals will.Basically vanish or result in the in you know in the completely irrelevance of the job of an H.
[9:23] And and basically agent will not be required anymore going forward and that thesis that hypotheses has been existing for for 25 years at this.
[9:32] What you can see is that the percentage of real estate transactions that have been supported or enabled by a.Buy a real estate agent has been relatively steady and relatively unchanged so so I think there’s certain elements.That a real estate agent can bring to the attention to the transaction and a certain value at that most sellers do appreciate what we see on our platform as well as is,that certain sellers try to sell it by themselves immediately or initially and then choose choose choose to select an agent because because they haven’t been able to so in essence,the obviously the the how you can assess.
[10:21] Whether an agent actually provides critical value is is if he at least.The chief surprised that that allows for his part of the provision to be paid out of hand.What do you say I think and and we you know I speak to many of our agents on a weekly basis.There’s a lot of elements that give the agent at better an advantage at selling a property Visa Visa vidi actual,the actual sale or the owner of a Property agent has time it’s his full-time job he knows his job inside out.She also will will be able to sell a property and and.
[11:04] Percent of property in a more in a more neutral and sober fashion that there should be less emotions involved.And he knows what works and what hasn’t worked right it’s similar to to a car salesman or two.You know to to anyone who sells a product you know you’ve been doing it for decades in many instancesand you know how certain say bad elements of a property can be,preempted can be renovated what needs to be done what will work with the certain pocket of buyers and what won’t work and what will detract.Interest so so so so I think there’s yeah that there’s a lot of a lot of elements that that speak in favor of actually hiring an agent I wouldn’t I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it in all situations.But but yet the fact that the percentage of transactions,in Germany and frankly across Europe has been relatively unchanged and and and and is very steady in terms of in terms of who uses an ancient and who actually sells privately.Shows me and is Testament.For our conviction that the agent the agent is here to stay and the agent actually plays a critical role in real estate selling
.
[12:26] Um before we get into hausgold I just wanna add a little.
[12:32] Culture background because here in Germany It’s usually the case if you
reallyand one point in your life settled to buy a house to buy an apartment usuallyit’s your only purchase of real estate in your life so most people will settle for the first for the only house they ever bought and they won’t change it a lot so it’s not only.Big decision in terms of financial value it’s also a big decision in terms ofwhere how to spend your life because if you’re looking for a really remote place you also have to consider that you live there at old age when we are not able to drive your car anymore and stuff like this so that are all considerations that goIntuit that.Why I do believe Germans look a little bit longer for Real Estate than Americans because if you’re an American you change several times your location and basically you always have in the back of your mind so if I don’t like this house I can sell it and can move another placeGermans are a little bit different here just for the cultural background my understanding is now.For house called you guys been founded 2014 in Hamburg ways to located you have.
[13:44] Run 16 employees will but more when we talked about before and basically your thing isyou have real estate brokers or agents that you connect with people who want to sell houses or basically not rental properties is your thing not Apartments but basicallyhow was itthat that is what you’re focused on and I’ve seen a very interesting list of investors including the global Founders fund backed by rocket internet the big Deutsche Bank.People from abroad may not know it but the founder of.Scout 24 it was like the first platforms the first digitalization platforms that been built here in Germany as well as hands Adventures where you guys beenbeen incubated I do believe and so far you raced around L 11 million euros from my understanding right.
[14:43] Yeah that’s correct that’s correct I also found an article that you guys are looking for another 12 million series B investment but when we talked about the article before you set up that’s not completely correct.
[14:57] No it wasn’t reported at currently in fact when not in a fundraising stage at this point what we’ve seen is this year has been I call it spectacular.In terms of in terms of our finances we’ve seen that our cash burn is close to zero.Whilst we grow you know we got to be growing roughly a hundred percent this yearso things that working out great we wanna grow more and we want to improve our financial situation even more when improve our unit economics and then,you know potentially tap the Capital Market at some point over the next say 12 to 24 months but but really it’s not.
[15:44] You know I am never a friend of raising Capital purely for the sake of raising capital,I you know if there is an opportunity how we can deploy the capital in a smart and in a value a creative manner then we will do so if we raising Capital purely for.For sayyou know for throwing money at marketing or at the expense of diluting our current shareholder base is not the way we want to operate how can aboutthese are so basically I have to question because I found an interview of your CFO Sebastian back in 2020 he talked about that was there was an April 2020 so when Corona was justgetting traction here in Germany and,he talked about for 2020 the aim of 100% growth plus per given the did you guys achieve that.
[16:41] Yes so we achieve break even,in that year and and basically we are right now not running at break even but at a relatively de minimis cash burn why is it.Tricky in our business sometimes 222 Break Even is because of the following reasons why right we invest in.Marketing in basically acquiring a customer context that want to sell the property right now.And will only generate the revenues over the next couple of months so basically because of that time Lake when you when you scale quickly it’s yeah it’s oftentimes difficult to to fully break even out to be strongly operationally profitable.
[17:28] What we what we’ve seen in 2020and you know which was at a time when I wasn’t yet at homeschooled but when I was already in touch with Sebastian what’s how school did is we slashed the growth a little,purely to see how korona will evolve and how it’s actually going to,impact the housing market I mean in hindsight obviously it was a it was a boost to real estate prices and actually also 2 to the number of transactions so itit was it turned out to be relatively beneficial to two prices,but idea we’ve basically we’ve slashed our marketing expenses for a couple of months and once you do that it’s tricky to recover that Revenue over time,so we didn’t grow it a hundred percent but we grew slightly less than that.Basically you guys are working with something like a 4000 real estate brokers and.
[18:29] Can you tell us a little bit what the people that are entering your platform all looking like because it’s like usually people that are,retired or are they very young and inherited houses are they very cheap ones are the very expensive ones with what is what is usually your clientele you your customer base.
[18:53] Well it depends on what you define as customer I Define customer as both the sellers potential property sellers on one hand and obviously the agents as wellagents you know I view them as customers but also his partners because they if the agent is successful how school is successful and you know conversely if they don’t end up selling a property to null so hausgold stands,not book revenues accordingly so so basically does it beautiful,alignment in terms of off the interest of the agent then and household per se which I think works very well.Maybe maybe quickly coming to a question right I or let me leaving maybe take a step back.First what we try to solve and where I think there’s a real market failure at this point is we try to bring,transparency to to the ancient landscape if you are a property seller right now in Germany or elsewhere,it’s very hard to differentiate for you who is a good seller and who is actually a who is a guy who’s a strong performing agent and who is actually a mediocre one.
[20:04] And you know in many life decisions this may not be as important but actually for many of our property sellers for many of the people who come across all platform in order to look for an agent,it’s the single most important financial transaction or still lifewe’ve run several surveys you know a large majority of the net worth of the the average seller in Germany is captured in this one property,so it is very critical that you decide on selecting the right agent.
[20:37] And if you look at it and if you speak to two friends and colleagues Etc.The process of selecting an agent is actually very erratic in most circumstances it’s driven by.Considerations about brand gut feeling maybe word-of-mouth somebody friend maybe it may have recommended an agent that.
[20:57] Potentially is even a top performing agent for a certain segment let’s say you know properties in the price range of 200,000he may not be the perfect agent to sell a see a mansion in the you know in the in a Suburban region in Berlin or Hamburg that’s worth maybe seven digits soso even if you are a good agent in for one specific property that may not necessarily apply to our properties so what wewhat we try to do here is we want to bring analytics to the question of,which agent to choose and we want to help the seller who basically struggles he who struggles to differentiate between good ones and and you know meteor Cajunsand we say we will look at all the data that we have of ouryou know almost well more than 4,000 agents on our platform we know to historical data we know how successfulthey have been at selling real estate of you know in certain segments in certain price points in certain locationswe know how good they were at say you know estimating a.
[22:11] The value of a property and how that estimate that initial estimate compared with the ultimate sales price so we have a lot of a lot of internal and a lot of external data to assesswho will be the best suited agents or who will be among the best suited agents in a certain for a certain propertyso that’s the value proposition that we give to to to a seller and and what we also do and I think this is.
[22:36] I think this is a great value add we tell a property seller that he can get up to three valuation estimates for free so he gets to meet three agents,and it can see you know and he can decide for himself,who he thinks is most legitimate who he thinks is most competent and who he wants to work with and maybe maybe also you know where there is a level of.
[23:02] You know Cole it Cole it sympathy or just getting along well with an agent which is also obviously critical from the from a personal standpoint so he gets to you know I compare it with,say you have a you know a unfortunate medical diagnosis you also want to get a second opinion in the third opinionand in this in such a case we enable given it’s such an important lifetime decision for his cellarwe say speak to more than one agent getspeak speak to various agents develop some comfort and and then you get to pick among already pre-selected agents that our algorithm that our technology basically has selected based on.Your property characteristics your preferences the sellers preference is basically and the competencies and success factors that we have of you know of our ancient base.So that’s something I think that’s the value at that we bring to the seller and to the to th and it’s.
[24:08] It’s it’s something you know similar in terms of market failure what do you see isor let’s put it that way why does the cellulose struggle to to differentiate between a good and a bad agent because it’sit’s very hard to to see it outside into to see it a priori with an agent is good or bad you will usually find outover you know over the course of the process of selling a real estate but usually you’ll find out way too late in the game.And similarly for it for a an H It’s tricky to differentiate himself from the crowd you may be a very.You know a very ambitious and hardworking and and she’s competent agent that everybody else uses the same slogans they will all promise you they’re going to sell your real estate.Quicker and for higher prize it’s extremely hard to differentiate you can try it via brand.And that’s a very expensive way to differentiate.And other than that it’s hard to get rewarded for performance you may get rewarded by a word of mouth.
[25:19] And that’s pretty much it Google reviews are very tricky the full with fake reviews you know I would call them almost useless.So if you want to have a platform whereperformance will be rewarded how school is a great for platform to work with because we will not only will a strong agent get moremorsella contact details but he’ll also get on our platform he’ll get specific tailored contact details that willthat will debt where we,where our algorithm already thinks that he will be he will be the best suited agent to actually perform will AKA to convert a you know Elite a cell is lead to a an actual sale.So that’s also the value at that we give to two agents on the flip side of coursewhat we do have is I’d call it an adverse selection in terms of the Ancients what do you see is if you’re strong performing you’re going to perform well on our platform and you’re going to get,plenty of sellers contacts if you perform poorly you’re going to get a couple of chances to to prove your performance but at some point,you know a certain natural selection applies and you’re not going to get any more contact details because because our algorithm our technology will will not regard you as good enough,to work with our sellers.
[26:46] One question when you talked about fake reviews that you also see already see some attempts on your website to post fake fake reviews fake transactions.
[26:58] I’m not sure what you mean with fictions are basically.Real estate broker asks a friend go on the platform select me give me good review.
[27:10] Not really we don’t work with reviews we work we work with reviews whenever a seller has performed the valuation and whatever I said whatever an ancient has performed the valuation of whatever an agent has actually.Ended up selling a property that’s that’s when our call Centre speaks to The Cellar and asked how.You know ask a couple of critical questions that will allow us to to look at the performance.What we primarily look at is the hard data basically how many,you know with how many customers have you spoken how many did you convert into into a broke a contract and how many of those Pro contracts do convert,how it’s a sale and how does that look across how do those numbers look across you know certain segments in terms ofprice point expertise of a certain property in terms of certain locations and so on and so forth and we also look at a lot of external data.The rich right to enrich our our decision-making process we do also include.
[28:17] Say the you know the review element.But frankly to a very minor peace because we are I’m cognizant of the fact that there’s a good element of fake,in it if you look at any and it’s hard to distinguish if you look at a platform that was at the big real estate portals.You never going to see really bad reviews it’s usually in 90% of the cases would that would be my guess.
[28:45] Either you get a review an average review 4.8 or bead 4.6 but it’s extremely.
[28:52] It’s very tough to interpret the data and if they could sit very noisy data so we refrain from from looking at it in too much depth.I see I actually like it when when an interview guest makes up so much of of the interview that’s really good let us get two words the end and I had just have.I’m a few more shorter questions for you,we’ve been already talking about how Corona did impact you so it was positive you didn’t have to send any employees to short-term employment options like quarterback.
[29:31] Not really we kept on working it’s easy for us because we and how we differentiate from other proptech sin a similar field as we don’t employ the actions on our platform.So so basically that makes us extremely lean from a capital efficiency standpoint makes us extremely lean from a.From a you know cost run-rate standpoint so no nobody was was put on furlough.We did what we did do is / our marketing expenses we readjusted a little hour.Our product development pipeline etcetera but other than that it’s.
[30:11] We didn’t we didn’t put anyone on furlough what we hit struggle with and and frankly I’ve seen it when I joined.In you know late last year he is obviously with the question of working remotely.I think it’s a great thing I think it’s also something where that you know as a start-up we compete with for talent with a lot of other firms and as a start-up you know as many startups we usually not in itin a position to to to potentially paid a best-seller,but we want to accommodate our employees by giving them a lot of flexibility in terms of choosing where they want to work from.And and giving them giving them a lot of flexibility in that regard so I think I think the coronavirus where you know the pajamas.
[31:03] Started in Spring 2020.I think in that regarded will have a lasting impact on I think many companies and including how’s school so we firm.Working remotely was was something relatively unorthodox before the pandemic at household and now it’s something relatively standard but I.
[31:23] But I still think it’s important to have have a certain office atmosphereand and and certain dialogue certain informal dialogues where you actuallydo create the ideas that will drive a business they it’s just easier for those things to happen in an informal manner in an office than with then when you actually speak with a colleague on a video call in my point of view.
[31:48] And one more question and where do you see how scold was in the next two,three years especially including the corona effect meaning as he said working remotely doing more from home replacing world would a real world interaction with digital ones so people can move outfurther from the city centers and by larger houses there how do you see stuff like this in Packing House colder the next few years and what do you see the company.In like the next 24 to 36 months.
[32:27] I mean I think it’s an excellent question I think I think what we currently already see now data is a certain trend of D urbanizationyou know meaning that that many people given the element of working remotely is becoming.More common place in German you know for German employers many people are using that as an as an opportunity to actually acquire properties outside of large Urban centers.So we see that and it’s something that we actually benefit from strongly because because we have.You know not only do we work with many of the largest.
[33:12] You know Nationwide operating real estate agents but we also work with with over 4000 of the small localpatrons and those those are oftentimes excellent agents those are the real entrepreneurs that that understand the market better than anyonethey wouldn’t be willing to to work you know to work for an employer but they want to actually have their own business they want to be the old boss and they do an excellent job and and they see in many instances now increased activity also on our platform,when it comes to when it comes to property transactions sort of in areas outside of the large Urban Santa so I think.I think it remains to be seen whether this trend actually continues over time it’s always hard to predict the future in in that regard.But but I think what we will seegenerally speaking is is potentially higher prices and more property transactions driven byby you know the village evaluation Spike over the last couple of years we see a lot of.A lot of Sellers and all platform that basically don’t.
[34:26] Necessarily want to sell their property because of a life-changing event say say you inherited a property or you you want to move elsewhere but that basically say have a second property and they want to actually make use ofof the current climate in terms of cheap financing that keeps that keeps prices up or keeps them rising and and you know on the inflationaryimplications of the monetary politics since the coronavirus so so there’s this so I think as long as this trend continues hausgold and I think many proptech in Germany will do well but ultimately you know I think I think we need to do wellregardless of the.
[35:06] The economic backdrop and and and and you know and regardless of whether whether real estate prices continue to inflate or actually me see it inflationary period as many people in the market are saying I think weas long as we connect and keep on connecting and keep on improving in that regard on connecting the seller with the best suited actionswe do a great service we provide a great service not only to the selleras long as we continue doing that because he will he will get an agent that will get it get in abetter price will be able to sell the property in you know in a short period of time these are the others and he will not he will not get an agent whowho say you know who will over-promised initially and then under-deliver which is something extremely disappointing for sellers but he will get somebody who will speak to him eye-to-eye and and and willwe’ll continue on his promises and actually do a good job and similarly for the search for the ancient I think as long as we keep on giving agents the right customer context that they will convert to a salewith a much higher likelihood than on other platforms and with other say you know competitors of ours we also we have a you know not only a result that.
[36:31] To exist but we will also do well and and.
[36:36] Yeah and provide a great service to to both our customers or Partners which I consider to be the sellers on the one hand and the end to the agents on the other.
[36:48] Rate.
[36:49] Well basically you always give me extensive answers and that there’s not a lot of I have to ask so only thing left for me to say is.Thank you very much it was a great pleasure having you as a guest here and best of luck for horse called and let us know if there is an update.
[37:08] I will appreciate the conversation and thanks for the invite you my pleasure thank you bye bye.
[37:14] That’s all folks find more news streams events and interviews at www.stanford.edu remember sharing is caring.
[37:30] Music.
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